Add in the use of hybrid mechanisms (use pneumatics, motors & constant-force springs through the use of creative cabling) and the instantaneous electrical power requirement is greatly reduced.
As far as holding extra game pieces goes, having an extra ball roll into the intake while shooting other balls is not very obvious, and could easily be missed by the refs. However, driving to the intake and having the human player feed 6 frisbees into the robot one at a time, then taking 30 seconds to climb up the pyramid with them will be extremely obvious. A robot that does this will definitely have the two fouls called against them, and doing it in several matches would likely draw a card at some point.
I see that power all the time - in the drivetrain. Hmm… :rolleyes:
Trust me, we saw it last year. Deliberate 4+ ball possession in autonomous was called at least twice at every event I coached or reffed, and sometimes more on the same team. The lack of carding last year* was not related to overlooking the illegal actions. It was no different than deliberately taking a Lane violation penalty in 2011 in order to complete a logo. As Jared said, it just makes sense.
*This post is not intended to provide direct insight into referee rulings for 2013. Hopefully the Q&A will inform this. If not, remember history, but (as always) execute entirely at your own risk.
OK, I am going to call it right now. No way is anyone under 5 seconds. In 2010, some of the best robots took 2 - 3 seconds using power take-off from the drive train.
All I can say is … Nessy 2013 is the 4 second legal climb.
Actually I would be surprised if anyone climbing didn’t try to keep their weight waaaaaaaayyyyy under the 120 limit. A fast, light weight, utility climber might be a solid partner in an alliance…
That’s our plan - light as humanly possible. Sure wish we could use brushless motors w/lipo batteries like I do on my personal projects. Could get the whole robot in the 10-20 lbs range tops for what we are planning on doing.
-Mike
it will be like the minibots
some will be sub 5s and others will be much much slower.
Like said previously, I’m calling out sub 5s climbs as impossible.
I’m going out on a limb and saying that it’s not going to happen. Feel free to prove me wrong, I really do.
EDIT: Team 217 has not deemed it impossible. It is simply highly unlikely.
For clarification, Team 217 does not deem it impossible, I personally think it is like Nessy, some people will claim it, but none will prove it.
But I said the same thing last year about the triple balance …
I’ve learned not to underestimate FRC teams…
I have a design that could make a rather smooth ~4-second climb, but we’ve deemed it beyond our ability to manufacture to desired specifications.
That said, I think well more teams will have ideas that could do it than teams that will have mechanisms that will.
It’s possible from a power standpoint, but I agree the time will still be above 4 seconds due to the multiple grip handoffs.
Just to be clear here, if you stall your CIMs when you’re trying to climb, you’re not moving anyway. You’ll want to design your hanger so it runs at 30-some amps (or less) under load to get as close to the max power as you safely can. A little under is a good idea since your battery voltage will have dropped during the match.
You can generally safely run 1.5x-2x the breaker current for a few seconds without trouble. It’s how most single speed drives begin pushing matches.
I’m really interested to see the value proposition that the elite teams take. Every year, there seems to be a killer design component that the elite figure out early, and the rest struggle to implement after seeing the effectiveness.
see: 2012 stingers, 2011 ramped minibot launchers/minimalist minibots, 2010 ball magnets/hanging on the vertical bars
I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be a divide amongst the elite this year. Some will have 30pt climbers that are effective, and others will have a corner based 20pt climb thats ridiculously fast (like some of the stupidly fast hangers in 2010 ~2s])
I think we may see a sub 4-second climb by 1 or 2 teams once or twice. I don’t think those teams will be able to do it consistently without major repair work.
I would tend to agree, but I feel like there may be “elite teams” that actually choose not to concern themselves with climbing and instead focus on shooting in the end game to make up for the points. It’s important to remember that when that signal comes at the last thirty seconds, the human players will be going berserk trying to throw frisbees onto the field to make shooting easier for their alliance. So the shooting opportunity is very real in the last thirty seconds
Right-o. If you can shoot seven three pointers and make a ten-point hang on the lowest bar in the same amount of time, you just one-upped a “thirty point climb”. Ten three pointers and no hang and you tied it.
Unless their team’s number is 1717*, I don’t think even the elite teams can consistently score 30 disc points in 10-20 seconds by themselves. 20-21 disc pts + a 10-pt climb may be more feasible, but 30 disc points is tough.
Plus, elite alliances won’t have any discs left to huck at the end. (edit-- this doesn’t account for the possibility of a higher-accuracy score of 4 colored discs into the pyramid goal either).
So I definitely think that high-caliber teams want a 30-point climb as an option for endgame.
*Of course, the kids who built an 18-shot bot last year aren’t on that team any more
I expect as always that the average team will struggle to score 7 3pters in the entire match.
The elite will be able to, but the best will 30pt hang in under 15 seconds also.
Do I see a return of the Loch Ness Monster stickers from last year??
67 better get on this!
Not that I think it is possible to get up the pyramid in 4 seconds or less.