The above addy gets you to the Ri3D youtube channel…Watch the Day 2 Stream 2 (or scan through until you see them gather around for the scaling test)…Of course they don’t yet have any front or rear frame members on that AM Tank Drive or Bumpers on it yet so it is very hard to tell when it is hanging in the “L” position whether it is officially outside of the frame more than 15" or not. But they have it driving, collecting, shooting, and hanging. (The start of scaling test is around 2:52:10, full hang at 3:01 or so). That vid is 6 hrs. + long).
Hmmm, run that video out to the last 10 minutes and you will see the bot in shooter mode in front of the Defense Ramp (Either all the builders are midgets/dwarves, or that bot is well over the 4’-6" in height and would be illegal on field in this years game outside of the last 20 seconds of a match (no robot can exceed that height until then correct?)
I remember the oddest robot that ever made it to Einstein was 1218 in 2004. To get up onto the platform it would lay down on ti’s side and drag itself up onto the platform. You can see it start to do it in the first semifinal match.. FIRST was very different back then . No more two team alliances. No more wedge bots. And bumpers exist now so these bots wouldn’t be as effective.
I have to add to this discussion that your robot has to satisfy all rules not just certain rules. What comes to mind are those rules and definitions that discuss bumper zone, FRAME PERIMETER and dimensions, bumper mounting (covering all exterior vertices) and articulation. Depending on dimensions, I can see the possibility of changes in aperture that can still satisfy the rules.
The rule that picture is related to has nothing to do with the frame perimeter or extensions beyond it. It **ONLY **has to do with maximum robot height.
R22 says: BUMPERS must be located entirely within the BUMPER ZONE, which is the volume contained between two virtual horizontal planes, 4 in. above the floor and 12 in. above the floor, in reference to
the ROBOT standing normally on a flat floor.
What defines “normally”? Starting configuration? Average position during the match? Where the robot lands if you were to pick it up and set it down again? Waived in the last 20s?
On a similar note, do the frame perimeter extension rules (R3, Fig. 4.2) rotate with the frame? If so, it would (awkwardly) prevent teams from going vertical while extending an arm to the rung (even if the height rules are waived).
Clarifying how these rules affect orientation changes will have a huge effect on teams attempt to scale the tower.
Usually when robots tip over [unintentionally] they aren’t fouled for changing their orientation on the field, or having “sideways bumpers.” just something to consider.
R22: BUMPERS must be located entirely within the BUMPER ZONE, which is the volume contained between two virtual horizontal planes, 4 in. above the floor and 12 in. above the floor, in reference to the ROBOT standing normally on a flat floor. BUMPERS do not have to be parallel to the floor.
This shown, I believe you can have sideways bumpers, as they do not have to be parallel with the ground; there are no rules stating that tipping changes any configuration of the robot. There is also no limit on horizontal extensions, so you can put wheels on that flick outside of the frame perimeter up to 15 inches, which you can fall onto. (Careful with those measurements though, as you still want to go under the lowbar)
I believe this is legal.
[edit: Also, remember that “normally on a flat floor” is simply how your bot sat during inspection, as “R” rules are primarily guaged as inspection rules. That being said, “normally” is in starting configuration, and also the bumper zone is applied to your robot in starting configuration. Your bumpers do not need to fall within the bumper zone after tipping. Literally speaking, there isn’t even a penalty for violating R22 on the field.]
Hmmm, so what would happen if a robot raised it’s ground clearance during a match, such that the bumpers exited the bumper zone? This would pass the “starting configuration” test, but would not pass “when you put the robot on the ground” test.
R22
BUMPERS must be located entirely within the BUMPER ZONE, which is the volume contained between two virtual horizontal planes, 4 in. above the floorand 12 in. above the floor, in reference to the ROBOT** standing normally on a flat floor**. BUMPERS do not have to be parallel to the floor.
Emphasis mine
When the robot “flops” the BUMPER ZONE does not change due to orientation of the robot (r22). Thus the FRAME PERIMETER does not change due to orientation change.
As long as you can extend wheels to the ‘flopped’ side (and keep it within the 15" extension rules) flopping looks legal to me.
Guys,
The intention is that any robot to robot contact occur only within the bumper zone to prevent damage to robots. The bumper zone is tested and evaluated when the robot wheels are on a level surface and bumpers may not be articulated (i.e. moving). If the robot changes robot frame to floor dimensions, I would expect the Q&A would respond that the bumper zone still has to be satisfied. As ruled in the past, if the bumpers are angled, they still had to satisfy the bumper zone requirement. That allows bumpers to be mounted higher on one side of the robot and lower on another side.
While the 2016 bumper rules are very close to those in the past, the only real answer can be obtained from the Q&A.
I agree, and I think that the simplest answer they could give would be changing “when the robot is standing normally on the floor” in R22 to “until the robot is scaling the tower” That would clean up a lot of this “creative thinking.”
That being said, I think creative thinking is awesome, and it’d be totally cool if they allowed it. I want to see robots do the limbo.