Ok, so we were looking at strategy for autonomous and the placement seems a bit un clear to me.
in section 4.2 on the bottom of page 40. it says if order of placement of robots matters to either alliance, notify referee. head ref will require alliances alternate placement of robots. but section 7.1 says they simply have to contact alliance wall and carpet.
now were just not totally sure what that means. like is the ref going to tell us where we have to put our robot or like, if the opposing alliance doesnt like where we put our robot do we have to move it? im struggling to find more clear rules.
just hoping for some clarification. thanks!
The order, in this case, refers to what order teams go onto the field to place their robots, not the physical order in which the robots begin the match.
Basically, if either alliance has a strategy that relies on countering their opponent’s strategy and wants to force the other alliance’s hand, they advise the Head Ref who will enforce placement order. If your opponents don’t like where you put your robot, that’s their problem. You put your robot in a legal place, and as long as it’s legal nobody can complain.
I think this rule has 2 purposes, the first is as a way to resolve conflict within an alliance when it comes to placing robots or ropes. For example, if an alliance is setting up for a match, and all three robots want to be right in front of the center pin, who gets it? Well they are free to work it out themselves, or if they can’t then they just go by player station order and the team in player station one gets the spot. Now hopefully they all know the rules and will give the spot to team1, but if not, the ref can get involved. Please know the rules and don’t get the ref involved here, it just slows the game down.
The second and more likely issue is two teams on opposing alliances robots interact during autonomous. This will likely happen more later in the competitions once teams know what each other can do. Here’s an example…
Blue Alliance’s Team1 can run out and hit a hopper and make a bunch of high goals during auto, or run several other less productive auto programs.
Red Alliance Team1 has an auto program they made that can disrupt blue teams hooper auto.
Red Team 1 only wants to run their disrupter auto if they know Blue Team 1 is going to go for the hopper.
Blue Team 1 only wants to run the hopper auto if they know Red Team 1 wont be running their disruptor auto.
This could mean the teams just eye each other and try and guess, and keep moving their robots around until the refs get mad at the delay of game or they could ask for the ordered placement.
In the case above, once they call for the ordered placement, Red Team 1 places first. If they pick the location that works for their hopper disruptor program, Blue team 1 goes second and picks a different location / program then they would have if they saw Red Team 1 set up on a different spot.
Again, this really only matters once you know what other robots can do and where they set up for what programs they are running. You can’t change where another alliance places their robots, but you can change where you place yours, based on where they place theirs.
The rule has nothing to do with any conflicts that happen within one alliance - you are expected to be gracious professionals and work that out with each other in advance.
The rule also has nothing to do with where the robots are placed; the referee will never dictate exactly where you must place your robot (as long as it’s touching the wall etc). Robot placement order and robot position are two different things.
The rule is in place in case the position of robots on one alliance affect the position of robots on the other alliance, forcing a situation where neither alliance wishes to set up their robots before seeing what the other alliance does. One example may be if one robot from each alliance is capable of reaching one of the hoppers at mid-field. Knowing whether or not that robot is going for that task will affect where the other robot is placed. If this conflict happens, teams notify the referees, who will dictate placement order where each alliance takes turns setting up a robot in a position on the field.
This is a fairly rare circumstance and I wouldn’t expect it to happen more than a few times a season.