Rule T-11: WHY!?!?!?!???

I have to ask, just because that’s the kind of guy I am. Is there any real purpose to Rule T11?

5.5.2.6 T11
At events, Teams may only produce FABRICATED ITEMS in the pit areas or provided machine shops, as defined in the Administrative Manual, Section 4.8, The Pit.

What else would a Team produce in their pits? COTS items? :rolleyes:

I believe the point of the rule is to make it illegal to fabricate items anywhere else, such as in the queue line or on the field.

Its so teams don’t start working on items in other areas on the arena. How would the event staff respond to a group of kids drilling aluminum in the lobby or stands?

I think DELurker is pointing out grammatical ambiguity in T11. T11 can be interpreted to say that only fabricated items can be made in the pits or only in the pits can fabricated items be made.

I think it also levels the playing field because local teams can’t manufacture parts at home. A well equipped team could easily fabricate a lot of parts during the practice day, making the withholding allowance useless.

Or parking lot, team trailer, off-site, etc.

What Joe said

I don’t understand how this would get them around the withholding allowance. Teams still would only be allowed to bring in 30 pounds; the rules specify “…to each event…”. Meaning (to me, anyway) that the applies throughout the tournament, not just when the robot is brought into the facility.

Any items fabricated off-site are by definition not fabricated at the event, and aren’t subject to T11. Teams are free to fabricate as much as they want at their home facility during events, provided they only access the ROBOT during pit hours (R18), and they only bring a maximum of 30 lbs of fabricated items to the event (R21).

Local or not, all teams are only allowed to bring in 30 lbs of items to the event. When those items were fabricated is not a requirement of R21. Any items that are fabricated AT the event are subject to T11 and must be fabricated in the pits or the machine shop.

T11 is both a safety rule in that it prevents people from fabricating items in locations where safety glasses are not required and a fairness rule by restricting where items may be fabricated at the event, preventing any ambiguity or grey areas about what is considered “at the event” (Loading dock, machine shop in a team trailer, etc.). Any fabricated components that didn’t exist on the robot when it was unbagged either must be fabricated in the pits/event machine shop or be subject to the 30lb allowance.

True, but another way to think about it is I am at the “event” and I have raw materials with me, lets go into our team’s mobile machine shop and start cranking out parts and put them on the robot. Oh, and our mobile machine shop has more machining capability than the event’s machine shop.

Technically I am at the event turning cots/raw materials into parts to put on my robot and the rules don’t limit how much cots/raw materials I can bring in and put on my robot.

The post to which I was responding was specifically about a local team manufacturing something at home. Anyone can have a mobile machine shop; that’s not limited to the home teams (although admittedly easier to bring into the parking lot).

Typically when someone has to use the word “technically” when explaining how they’re interpreting a rule, they’re lawyering. :wink: imo that mobile machine shop in the parking lot isn’t at the event since it’s not in the event venue. T-11 solves the problem, though.

Thanks, guys. I was focused more on the emphasized what you could make rather than the tiny-print where you could make it. It does make sense if you look at it as a “where” rule rather than a “what” rule. :o

This was always the intent of the rule from my understanding.

Nor can they take parts to their hotel and work on them overnight. I had a team at a regional I was an inspector at that wanted to remanufacture their bumpers over night and I had to disallow it because of T11. It levels the playing field on how much TIME a team can work on their robot as well.

Time is the only thing every team at an event has an equal amount of already.

I’d disagree with that decision considering the changes to the bumper rules this year. Particularly how they no longer count toward your withholding allowance and don’t need to be included in the robot bag. Besides, the bumpers wouldn’t give them any sort of competitive advantage beyond allowing them to work on their robot instead of their bumpers like any other team. Many teams made their bumpers at home after build season ended, so I don’t see an issue here.

Wait, so all we have to do is drive our machine shop through the front doors and into the pits? Awesome! We might need a little more pit space though::ouch::

Darn Administrative Manual :wink:

When using tools in the Pit, be sure to use them properly, in a safe and controlled manner. Unsafe operation, especially those that endanger others and your team, will be subject to scrutiny by the event staff and safety reviewers. Their findings may result in team caution or event expulsion.

Please adhere to the following safety rules regarding Pit safety and tool use:

Tools that throw sparks are prohibited. 
Examples:  Electric welders, bench grinders and angle grinders. 
Tools that produce open flames are prohibited. 
Examples:  Gas welders and propane/MAPP gas torches. 
Floor standing power tools are prohibited. 
Examples:  Full-size drill presses, full-size band saws and full-size table saws. 
Grinding or painting in the Pit is prohibited.  Designated grinding and painting areas are available to teams. 
Brazing/welding is prohibited at the team Pits.  Use the machine shop. 
Soldering is permitted. Use electric iron/gun only. 
Small, bench-top machinery, with appropriate guards, is permitted in team Pits. 
We consider ‘small’ machinery as machinery easily lifted by one (1) person
Examples:  Small band saws, drill presses, and sanders.
Small, desktop machining centers are permitted as long as they are reasonably sized.  They must be appropriately covered to prevent throwing of chips during operation. 
We consider ‘small’ machining centers to be easily lifted by one (1) person
Example:  Desktop CNC mill.

Good point. I’m prepared to accept that the rules would permit a team to take bumpers and operator consoles off site to work on them.