Hi guys,
What are the rules for building after bag day. For example, could we build and test a component after the bag day, and then reassemble it on our final robot at the competition?
You have a withholding allowance of 30 pounds. You can keep 30 pounds of prefabricated non COTS items which you can then use at the competition. Some teams keep their electronics for a practice robot, other teams keep a subsystem which needs more work to be reliable. Be very careful though. You don’t want to go over the weight limit, and you don’t want to spend your first day building your robot instead of practicing with it.
Good luck.
As long as your robot stays sealed in the bag and your component weighs less than the witholding allowance, you can build away. We pack a tape measure IN our bag in case we need emergency measurements. It worked great last year.
You would need to install on pit day of competition. You don’t necessarily need to deconstruct your component if it weighs less than the allowance.
You can bring in 30 pounds of projects you have worked on.
Sorry, but what does “COTS” stand for?
Commercial off the shelf. So anything you buy pre-made and have not modified or assembled onto anything.
Emphasis mine.
What do you mean, “in case we need emergency measurements”? Once the robot is bagged, it’s bagged. You’re not supposed to design off of it, touch it, interact with it, probably not even look at it. After Ship Day, the robot ceases to exist in the physical world until your first regional.
Only a tape measure? We bag the smallest kid on the team just to be sure. 
But all kidding aside, I would read sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5 of the manual as they are the rules on this matter.
We’ve been thinking about just declaring our smallest kid on our BOM and making her part of the robot.
Don’t forget to pack them a sack lunch or two
The Glossary in the game manual has a good definition. See p 90.
If your assembly weighs less than 30lbs and you don’t need to bring in other fabricated items then bring it in assembled. If it weighs more than 30lbs then remove the COTS items like motors, transmissions, and wheels so that they are in their “as purchased” state and then only the fabricated items count as part of your 30lbs.
Actually, after reading sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5, I still don’t have a clear understanding of what “hands-off” means in R18.
R18
Teams must stay “hands-off” their ROBOT during the following time periods:
- from Stop Build Day until their first event,
during the period(s) between their events, andoutside of Pit hours while attending events.
Additional time is allowed as follows:
- There are no restrictions on when software may be developed.
- On days a team is not attending an event, they may continue development of any items permitted per R21, but must do so without interfacing with the ROBOT.
Teams attending 2-day events may access their ROBOTS per the rules defined in the Administrative Manual, Section 5.6, ROBOT Access Period - for Teams Attending 2-Day Events.
Lacking an official definition of “hands-off”, I would actually interpret this as meaning that the robot cannot be modified, adjusted, or tweaked while it is in the bag. Measuring would not violate that. Turning wrenches, drilling holes, and wiring components would violate that.
Think of the old days when we put the robot in a box and Fed-X hauled it away. That’s “Hands-Off” and that’s the way you should consider it. Putting a tape measure in the bag, then manipulating it through the plastic cannot be construed as “Hands-Off”, and , I feel, a violation of the spirit of the lock-up rules.
I guess anyone with the courage of their convictions could put a question in to the Q & A asking if it is legal to put a tape measure in the bag so the team could continue to take measurements so they can work on fabricated parts, but then some of us would probably rather not know.
Come on guys, you know what FIRST expects!
Dr. Bob
Chairman’s Award is not about building the robot. Every team builds a robot.
Consider this statement in 4.1 of the robot rules:
“When reading these rules, please use technical common sense (engineering thinking) rather than “lawyering” the interpretation and splitting hairs over the precise wording in an attempt to find loopholes. Try to understand the reasoning behind a rule.”
Now consider what Bag & Tag is – a less expensive replacement for shipping crates. I would think that using your CAD drawings for measurements after bagging is “hands off”, but a measuring tape, even through plastic, needs hands.
Now…it was far simpler to box up that small team member when we still used crates… And air holes were easier, too. 
You’re supposed to treat the robot as if it’s in a crate in a drayage facility like the old days of shipping. Obviously, you can’t measure/inspect/interact with it if it’s in a drayage facility.
That’s the trouble with tradition. Only we older fogies remember it. Talk of drayage facilities and crates only confuses the newer guys. In the absence of specific instruction to not even look at the bagged robot, what should a fresh mind think of that? If FIRST wanted such stringent measures, they’re capable of writing the rules to fit their desires. An opaque bag would go a long way to reinforce the behaviors being espoused here.
BTW our little, inside “guy” has a pillow and an iPad. 
You should note R-18E, which stipulates that you can work on your withholding allowance without interfacing with the robot. I would interpret making a measurement as interfacing with the robot, particularly if the tape measure were in the bag. However, if you were to make measurements on parts you were planning to need measurements on before the robot went into the bag, note the measurements, and use the notes, you’d be just fine. Or if you built a jig to simulate that part of the robot, you’d probably be OK.
So could we leave the cRIO and motor controllers and other electronics stuff out of the bag and work on image processing and programming?
It depends on how you’re doing on your withholding allowance. If you leave all of your wires hooked up, it’s no longer in its COTS state, it has been modified to fit the function of your robot, if only slightly. You can still bring that sort of thing in, just make sure it (plus any other parts you bring) is under the 30 pound limit. The other option is taking it apart and wiring it up at competition, which could take away time from other things, like getting the rest of your robot ready and going to practice matches. There aren’t restrictions against coding during this period, so do as much of that as you want.