After the game reveal today, some teammates and I were playing the new xRC simulator update. However we quickly noticed that something was off with the scoring in the game. After some testing it turned out that the game awarded points to game pieces scored in AUTO twice.(Both the AUTO and Tele-op points) This left us and the team wondering whether that is actually what happens in competition. In the manual we couldn’t find a clear answer, so: Do game pieces scored in AUTO get both the AUTO points and the Tele-op points?
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The manual does not give a clear answer and this will need be Q&Ad when it opens.
FTC games have scored game elements twice like this for many years in the past without it being clearly stated in the rules until this year.
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It would seem unlikely that this is the way game pieces will be scored. Certainly that wasn’t the case in the last pick-and-place game in FRC (Deep Space in 2019) where pieces scored during auto were only counted then and not recounted during teleop. Looking back at earlier games I can’t find any examples of this kind of double scoring. Given that this seems to be the historical precedent in FRC, what you’ve observed in xRC is likely to be a glitch.
Well, the points in auto are awarded for the placement, right? During teleop, if those game pieces were knocked out of place, would the team lose the points from auto like they would if they had been placed during teleop?
It’s a little confusing.
I don’t have the rules text on me right now, but if a piece scored in Auto is removed during Teleop, and then another piece is put in its place (unclear if piece type matters for hybrid nodes), then it will regain the AUTO points instead of the Teleop points.
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Yes.
As i understand the rules, the spot that the item was scored is what earns the auto points, not the object scored. If a gamepiece is removed and then another game piece is placed back in its spot, that spot gets its auto score back.
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From 6.4:
If a GAME PIECE scored in AUTO gets removed from its NODE during TELEOP, the AUTO points are
removed. If a GAME PIECE is scored in that NODE again, the AUTO points associated with the original
scored GAME PIECE are restored.
Essentially, game pieces are counted at the end of AUTO and at the end of TELEOP. If a node changes score state temporarily during TELEOP, it doesn’t matter–only the final states of each phase.
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Thank you!
Yes, I believe the manual calls out that the configuration of pieces after 3 seconds is what gets counted, no matter the state in between.
If a game piece is placed in the coop grid in auto and the cooperatition bonus is awarded, then in teleop it is removed does the bonus stay?
I’d imagine so, but the rules are entirely unclear on this. This sounds like a really good question for Q&A.
Except there wasn’t specific scoring for game pieces scored in Autonomous like there is this year. Hatch Panels/Cargo just had a flat value.
As Alex mentioned up top, the precedent in FTC for years has been that placement tasks in Auto are scored again at the end of the match. Since I’ve been involved in FRC (started in 2008) we haven’t had placement tasks that were worth more in one period than another that I can remember, so it will be interesting to see what the GDC’s intent is here.
The closest we came is in 2017, where achievement tasks (having the Rotor turning) were scored at the end of the period. But that manual had explicit clauses for items “not having previously been scored” that this manual doesn’t have.
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I think you’re greatly stretching the definition on this. If you look at other pick and place FRC games (2018 PowerUp, for instance, or 2011 Logo Motion) there’s no doubling up on scoring from a single game piece. Scoring just continues from the end of auto with newly scored pieces (or score states, in the case of PowerUp). In Logo Motion, the logo pieces could score more in teleop if placed over the ubertubes, but there was no rescoring of the ubertubes.
Applying FTC scoring precedents to FRC is highly dubious and not something that the FRC game designers have ever shown a tendency to do.
How do you get the xRC update?
I’m not intending to say “this is how FTC did it and therefore this is how FRC will do it”, I apologize if that’s how it came off. I’m just saying that there isn’t precedence in FRC so the FTC precedent is the closest we have.
- 2018 didn’t offer any auto-specific scoring for game pieces like 2023 does, so I don’t think it applies.
- In 2011 you didn’t score game pieces in auto, just the ubertubes, which as you mentioned had no score.
And in the end this is all speculation until we can get an answer in the Q&A, which thankfully opens in a few minutes!
I’m pretty sure the only way to get the update is to reinstall the game (but the newest version of course) from the xRC website. Downloads – xRC Simulator
First of all, ask the Q&A. They can give official rulings, which will likely clear this up completely.
That said, there are two bits of the manual which I think can help us decide if both auto and teleop points are awarded for scored game pieces.
From 6.4.1:
If a GAME PIECE scored in AUTO gets removed from its NODE during TELEOP, the AUTO points are removed. If a GAME PIECE is scored in that NODE again, the AUTO points associated with the original scored GAME PIECE are restored.
This does not directly contradict the interpretation that teleop points are awarded in addition to auto points for score game pieces. However, awarding points for both game phases indicates a scoring seperation between the two, which doesn’t make sense in light of this section.
From 6.4:
B. GAME PIECES scored in the GRID continues for up to 3 seconds after the ARENA timer displays 0
following AUTO.
D. GAME PIECES scored in the GRID continues for up to 3 seconds after the ARENA timer displays 0 following TELEOP.
In contrast to the charge station points, which are awarded at a point in time “3 sec after the end of phase”, grid scoring is evaluated continuously, meaning that as pieces are scored and descored throughout the match, they immediately gain/lose points. It does not indicate that pieces scored in auto are scored again at the beginning of teleop.
So I was wondering, do popped cubes still count for points?
yes.
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