A auto path that scores their pre load then scores in the trap could be very cool.
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I was thinking of that, but from my perspective, it would make more sense to score it in the speaker because of the extra 3 points you get from scoring in the speaker in auto compared to teleop. The trap is worth 5 points regardless of when you score in it.
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It would be, but the game design committee has not given any point value to the trap in autonomous mode, so unless that changes you won’t see it (autonomous trap scoring). It would be a very difficult challenge, and if it followed the general trend of worth double what it is worth in teleop then it might tempt a few teams to try it. Let’s hope the GDC sees this thread.
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The use for it I was thinking of was a auto on the other side of the field from the speaker where you don’t have as good of an angle to shoot
The manual says (Section 6.5.1)
A NOTE is scored in the TRAP if it enters the TRAP from above (i.e. through the cutout above the AprilTag).
Immediately above 6.5.1 it says
assessment of STAGE points is made 5 seconds after the ARENA timer displays 0:00 following
TELEOP, or when all ROBOTS have come to rest following the conclusion of the MATCH,
whichever happens first.
The Blue Box at the end of Section 6.5.2 says
LEAVE and STAGE points are evaluated and scored by human REFEREES. Teams
are encouraged to make sure that it is obvious and unambiguous that a ROBOT
has met the criteria.
TRAP is listed in Table 6-2 in the STAGE section, so the above applies.
Since Table 6-2 does not list any points in the AUTO column for TRAP, the argument could be made that it only counts in TELEOP. (Just like LEAVE only has points in the AUTO column, so it does not count in TELEOP.) I think this needs to be clarified in Q&A, but I suspect referees will be told in training to only score the TRAP if it happens in TELEOP. I hope to be proven incorrect, as that relies on the referees being able to remember through the entire match when the NOTE got into the TRAP…
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The manual also states (6.1 Match Overview)
ROBOTS conclude the MATCH PARKING in their STAGE ZONE, getting ONSTAGE via a chain, and/or scoring a NOTE in a TRAP.
I’ve also seen other teams interpreting this as it is only allowed to be placed during Endgame and won’t even count if it is scored during the Teleop period before Endgame.
I’m not sure if you meant Endgame or Teleop in general so just clarifying from what I’ve seen others say.
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There is no term ENDGAME defined term this year, like there was last year. So there is nothing that makes the final 20 seconds any different from the rest of TELEOP, except for the protection given in G424 (and the end of the protection given in G422), and when HIGH NOTES can be entered (G430).
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I don’t see anywhere where this conclusion could be drawn from. The TRAP only has points in TELEOP column because it is evaluated at the end of TELEOP. Specifically, 5 seconds after the end. It wouldn’t make sense to have points in the AUTO column because it isn’t scored in AUTO. If it had points in both columns, you might assume that it is scored twice, once at the end of AUTO and again at the end of TELEOP.
On a different note, why would you want to spend your precious AUTO time scoring a note in the TRAP. It doesn’t give you more points and will likely be harder for teams.
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And I hope you’re right, because it makes the referee’s job easier (just slightly).
I was thinking the same thing.
They’ve been overthinking this bit. There’s a couple of things you want to read here.
- This lists actions a ROBOT may take while concluding the game. It doesn’t discuss what other actions may be occurring. The logic folks are using to reach that conclusion would also do things like ban scoring in the SPEAKER during this “conclusion” period.
- Capitalized words are pretty important in the game manual. “CONCLUDE” and “conclude” are not the same, even if CONCLUDE existed. Without that capitalized term defining what/when “conclude” means, it’s generally the colloquial word.
- If we try to hold it as literally as folks using that interpretation are doing, that means that any ROBOT that doesn’t take one of those three actions hasn’t finished their MATCH and can continue scoring elsewhere.
There’s nothing in that clause that prevents scoring otherwise.
From there, @Ankur-Raghavan hit the rest of this on the head. Given what the manual states, REFEREES won’t be told to score this at any point other than in the 5 seconds as time expires and beyond. They’ll look at the state then and make an assessment. That’s when scoring occurs. It doesn’t discuss looking at when we came into that state. It just says that’s when scoring occurs. The scoring table doesn’t reference any AUTO points because the scoring only occurs relative to TELEOP.
As a general idea, this is one to run (not walk) away from. You’re really going to come into one of two situations:
- You create a pretty ingenious idea for a TRAP scoring MECHANISM that’s faster than driving from the STAGE to a SPEAKER scoring position.
- You do not create such a MECHANISM.
If you fall into the first category, you have beyond enough time in the rest of TELEOP to use this MECHANISM to score 3 NOTES into the respective TRAPS. There’s no benefit to doing so during AUTO. Even if you’d only hit that extra AUTO 1/100 of the time, the expected value of this action is higher than the value of scoring in the TRAP. Take that 1% win.
If you fall into the second category, driving towards the SPEAKER will take less time than setting up the TRAP scoring. You’re more likely to find success doing this in every MATCH.
There isn’t a scenario where it makes more strategic sense to go for the TRAP during AUTO. It may be fun to see. But, that’s the only benefit you’d gain from such an action.
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This is from Q&A today which has the possibility of the trap counting for points in auto. You at least don’t have to wait till the last 20 seconds.
It just means if you score the TRAP during AUTO that it won’t be penalized. It doesn’t add any additional scoring value. It doesn’t change when the scoring takes place. It’s still the same as discussed elsewhere in this thread. There’s no added benefit.
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according to the GDC there are no restrictions as to when you can score the trap, so you should be able to in auto.
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