Posted by Tom S…
Student on team #177, The Bobcats, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells & ONSI.
Posted on 5/22/2000 1:16 PM MST
Hey Everyone… If anyone saw the Bobcats scouting in Florida or Hartford, you know that we had a bunch of Palm Pilots all around, a couple at every field scouting. People asked a lot of questions to me about how I programmed the palms, the link-up between the Palm Pilot and the computer and a bunch of other things. Well, for those of you who are interested, the program taht is used to code on the palms is Pendragon Forms. It is available using the link below. If anyone has any question on how it works or anything else about it, just email me.
Good luck to all… How many days til kickoff??? woah who else is addicted??
Tom S.
Posted by Ken Patton. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.
Posted on 5/22/2000 8:47 PM MST
In Reply to: Scouting in 2001… posted by Tom S. on 5/22/2000 1:16 PM MST:
Hi Tom-
Our team (65) was doing similar things, using ThinkDB. While it appeared to me to work fine (GMCIA had >1400 scouting records and was reliable and fast), our Visor/MSAccess gurus (Norm and Mike) were telling me that someone else (I think you guys) had something that might be different/better in terms of Palm database software.
It would be great if we all could agree on the right PalmOS database to use, then try to ensure that any teams who want to scout with a common database are up to speed. That way, it will be easier for people to share the data.
To me, the deliverables are:
- easy to enter on a Visor/Palm
- dead solid reliable
- able to hold the whole DB on a Visor/Palm
- easy to upload to a PC for backup or distribution point
- IR link to PC’s or other palms (a good idea?)
The questions on the table:
- Which PalmOS database? ThinkDB, Pendragon, Other?
- Which desktop database? Access, Excel, other?
The earlier we lock in on a common choice, the easier it will be for hundreds of teams to share scouting data…
Anyone else have opinions, info, suggestions?
Ken
Posted by Erin. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Student on team #1, The Juggernauts, from Oakland Technical Center-Northeast Campus and 3-Dimensional Services.
Posted on 5/24/2000 5:05 AM MST
In Reply to: Re: Scouting in 2001… posted by Ken Patton on 5/22/2000 8:47 PM MST:
Ken-
The team that was the heavy palm pilot users was team 188 from canada. They were at your pit a few times gathering up information from you. They also called their local motorola offices and motorola lent them about 10 radios with headsets to communicate with each other. I believe that is right, so devin or mike if you want to correct me feel free.
Team 188 made the whole palm thing look real easy- 3 of them even went to chicago just to get info!
That’s a dedicated strategy team.
-Erin
Posted by Tom S…
Student on team #177, The Bobcats, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells & ONSI.
Posted on 5/24/2000 4:20 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Scouting in 2001… posted by Ken Patton on 5/22/2000 8:47 PM MST:
Ken:
Pendragon will work on any handheld that is running the palm OS, and uses the hotsync to upload the data. (I think the Visors are running this). While we were scouting, we never lost a single record, we had the option to keep all records on the palms or to upload them to the PC and delete them off the palms.
To upload to the PC, just stick the palm/visor in and hotsync it, the whole procedure is done in 15 seconds. (great for those times that the drivers are waiting for scouting data for their matches 
) As for the IR linking, we cannot send records from palm to palm in pendragon, I am not sure about ThinkDB though, I thought I saw taht option somewhere in there. The desktop app should definitely be Access, it is much more powerful when it comes to data processing and sorting. It will save teams in the long run, plus you can export to excel if you really want to.
We were using pendragon, and it is amazing easy to use. Everyone on my team was able to pick it up and use it right from the start. Our team’s scouting alone in florida allowed us to input over 400 records to our database for nationals, and over 200 for the regional in Hartford. Out of our data, I only found three corrupt records.
Overall, it really doesn’t matter how they input the data (ThinkDB or Pendragon), as long as when the records go onto the computer, they input them with the same field names that are in a master database.
Sooner we decide this stuff, the more teams we could possibly involve. (more teams = more data = being better prepared for matches)
Just my 2 cents
Tom
PS: check out the link for pendragon if anyone is interested
Posted by Ken Patton. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.
Posted on 5/25/2000 4:52 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Scouting in 2001… posted by Tom S. on 5/24/2000 4:20 PM MST:
I checked out the Pendragon link - yow, $149 for the first copy and $45 for additionals (although they do mention a volume discount). ThinkDB is $25, and a demo copy (not enough capability to hold a scouting DB) is free. Are there some other capabilities with Pendragon that would make it worth the $$? As far as I can tell (and no way am I an expert) they would both allow us to do the same things.
We agree on the use of Access as the repository of the ‘main’ database. Anyone else want to suggest something different?
I have not tried beaming a DB to anyone else yet. We’ll do some testing and let everybody know…
Hows this for a timeline:
this summer: choose the palm software for scouts to enter data
this summer: get everyone to agree that MS Access is the right choice for the ‘main’ database
this summer: make up a dummy scouting form and DB available to everyone interested
this fall: people get up to speed on how to use the system
October 31: publish the ‘official’ choices and procedures - the dummy’s guide to scouting DB
late fall, early winter: people can buy their hardware/software knowing it will be compatible
Jan 6, 2001: lets get nuts again
Jan 30, 2001 (wow its 2001 already is that amazing or what): prelim scouting form posted
Feb 29, 2001 after much discussion in Feb, post the final template for the ‘official’ DB
After Week 1 Regionals: crash effort to simplify the template so it can be scouted reliably
After Week 2 regionals: a common, reliable, scoutable database for anyone to use
Whaddya think?
Ken
Posted by Joe Johnson. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.
Posted on 5/25/2000 8:19 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Scouting in 2001… posted by Ken Patton on 5/25/2000 4:52 PM MST:
While I am far from an expert on all this you folks are discussing (in fact, I thought Pendragon was King Arthur’s Dad – not a software program for a PalmIII), I think that FIRST could save us all a LOT of bother if they would add a few lines of code to their Visual Basic program that manages the scores & rankings that would upload the scores to their website.
This really should be a no-brainer. FIRST could do this extremely easily.
If they did, then the scouting programs you folks are proposing could focus on less mundane things than who partnered with whom and what the scores were. Perhaps more time could be spent gathering things like, who can hang, how fast can they score, etc.
Ah well…
…a guy can dream can’t he?
Joe J.
Posted by Ken Patton. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.
Posted on 5/26/2000 1:46 PM MST
In Reply to: How about this? posted by Joe Johnson on 5/25/2000 8:19 PM MST:
Joe-
Thats pretty much where the focus already is, on the things that aren’t covered by FIRST - so no need to dream about it :)). Lots of good data (things like first to the wall, who steals the far diagonal ball, etc.), and helpful in planning game strategy and picking, etc.
Ken
Posted by Jason Rudolph.
Student on team #168, The Flashbacks, from North Miami Beach Senior High and Velda Farms/FedEx/ETC/HPE Automation.
Posted on 5/29/2000 2:01 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Scouting in 2001… posted by Ken Patton on 5/25/2000 4:52 PM MST:
Well, I found this on the web somewhere, it could definately help out some teams with a lack of funds. There is this site on the web that is literally giving away for free palm Vs. They are trying to get people to join up on their site, so if you can get 25 people to register, then they will give you a free palm V. I figure that many teams, like my own, might not be able to spen the money on a palm, but would still like to contribute to the scouting. So, I am telling everyone about this here so that they can try and get some palms for the upcoming season. Just click the link below to register. Once you register, go to the members section. Click on the link that says ‘refer a friend’ and just send the message to 25 people. Once they register, you get a free palm V. Check it out.
Jason
Posted by Tom S…
Student on team #177, The Bobcats, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells & ONSI.
Posted on 5/29/2000 5:16 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Scouting in 2001… posted by Jason Rudolph on 5/29/2000 2:01 PM MST:
Sounds like a good deal to me
If anyone wants to join, enter my referal info!!
I am a member of PDAFN.com
First Name: Tom
Last Name: Schindler
Email: [email protected]
Thanks
Tom Schindler
: Well, I found this on the web somewhere, it could definately help out some teams with a lack of funds. There is this site on the web that is literally giving away for free palm Vs. They are trying to get people to join up on their site, so if you can get 25 people to register, then they will give you a free palm V. I figure that many teams, like my own, might not be able to spen the money on a palm, but would still like to contribute to the scouting. So, I am telling everyone about this here so that they can try and get some palms for the upcoming season. Just click the link below to register. Once you register, go to the members section. Click on the link that says ‘refer a friend’ and just send the message to 25 people. Once they register, you get a free palm V. Check it out.
: Jason