I know this thread pops up every year, but what I witnessed this morning was sheer chaos and I feel like something needs to be organized at the venue or administrative level about seats for scouts. People were trampled and I even saw a fist fight. While the behavior is unacceptable, as a group we need to stop the cause of it.
We (and by we I mean FIRST and the community) can’t just say free for all, first come first served and open three doors and wish everyone good luck. We should be able to, but FIRST is huge now and is a microcosm of the world and this kind of unreasonable behavior is going to happen and is contagious. Emotions run high, everyone puts so much work into a season and sometimes lose our logical level headedness (there have been times lost mine). We also have to realize that not everyone in a team shirt is a scout or pit crew or drive team member (I know they should act accordingly as they still represent the team), but parents sponsors and other people come to championship with teams.
I do want to thank teams 148 and 624 for stepping up this morning and trying to organize an orderly system before the mass hysteria took over.
I think 6-10 seats should be reserved in the closest sections for each team and lottery’d off. That or have some sort of organized system for who showed up first. These are just my ideas, what are yours? I thought I would turn to the smartest forum on the internet before compiling ideas and writing to FIRST.
PS I apologize for any spelling or grammatical errors this is from my iPhone in the stands.
Before they open the stands they could set up a separate queue that each team can send about 10 students (scouts) to, and this group could be let in a few minutes early to set up where they like. Have maybe one volunteer escort them to each field’s seating area who could help mediate any disputes or make sure nobody tries to save a huge area of seats or something. Once the scouts get settled the rest of the spectators can be let in.
Also, I find the seat-saving issue to be quite ridiculous most of the time. Often it’s just a couple people who want to complain about some other team, the kind of people who will find something to complain about no matter what. Really it’s not just people holding seats that’s a problem, it’s also the teams that come in to try and snatch your spots while you’re gone that add to the problem. If people don’t feel like they need to save their seats, they won’t do it. Trampling and fighting is ridiculous. I’m not usually one to pull the GP card, but guys, GP.
Don’t be selfish. Don’t hold onto a chunk of seats for a long time, don’t take other teams’ seats just because you technically can.
^Avoiding fist-fights isn’t “GP”, it’s common sense, decency, and in the case of aggravated assault, the law.
I honestly didn’t read through all of the administrative sections of this year’s manual to the point where I know all of the rules, but I do believe it is against FIRST policy to overtly save seats in the stands (I know certain people on this forum have rightly brought this up before).
Unfortunately, everyone breaks this rule and when I am put in the position of weighing my team’s interests of not sitting away from the field or following a rule that is ignored by other teams, I will compromise and have students block off seats for late-arriving parents and sponsors in a non-prime seating area while they themselves file in the rows. Scouting fends for itself and usually gets wherever they like to set up camp.
It would be nice if they set up a “scouting pit” at certain events, especially CMP where a majority of the teams have heavily involved scouting.
Well considering that saving seats is against the FRC rules, I think it’s strange that nobody has tried to do anything to stop teams from saving seats. I know at regionals this is an issue too, at SVR we started with 3 rows for our team and ended up with 1 by the final day.
Getting seats at any event is becoming very competitive. I’m not sure that it needs to be lottery-drawn nor fair, but something does need to change. It is getting out of hand. The difficult thing is some teams have legitimate needs for closer seats or a higher quantity of seats while other teams do not.
Obvious. I guess I should have spaced those two comments out a bit, the GP bit was addressed to people who argue over seats like it’s a huge deal. The fist fights and trampling is just ridiculous. The fact that something like this is a problem just seems childish.
I don’t see an assigned seating system working. When they assigned the seats for the concert last year a lot of teams got really bad spots and were understandably upset. Also, a lot of teams didn’t use all of the space they claimed, and almost everyone from the top section snuck down into the bottom rows that had empty seats.
Perhaps having a designated scouting section would be best. Give each team some “Scout” passes/badges that you need to get in. Might even encourage more teams to send scouts.
I agree with the scouting badge. If we have a press badge so teams can take pictures from on the field I don’t see why there can’t be a scouting badge that will allow 2-3 students the same privilege as well as access to a special seating area. Scouts need to see the event more than others.
I have also found that some teams allow their kids to sleep in their seats during the event. Is this really the best use of that seat? There are plenty of seats that are not prime viewing seats that can be used to grab a nap. Although I don’t understand how any one can sleep during a regional or CMPs. I find all of it way to exciting to sleep. But then again I don’t stay up till 4am at the hotel socializing either.
You probably don’t travel 14 hours on a bus overnight and arrive at 9am straight off the bus to save the team the cost of a night at a hotel. Some people just can’t sleep on a bus and those who can don’t find it restful.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying don’t sleep. I am saying perhaps sleep higher in the stands or off to the side, so the people that want to watch the matches can have a closer seat. If you need to sleep cool but obviously you are not watching the matches when you do so. The scouts are watching every match and need to watch every match. When they have to sit in a bad spot because people from your team are sleeping due to the bus ride it is not very courteous to those scouting members.
What fit they had some sort of system where, when you arrive at the dome, you’d send one team representative to an organized line where you select a seating area on a first-come first-served basis? It COULD work, but I don’t think anybody wants to deal with the hassle of such a system. One thing they NEED to fix, however, is only having Security at the entrances. They should definitely have Security and/or volunteers roaming the stands to stop such havoc from occurring. I also don’t find it fair when your seats get stolen, like when your team goes to lunch and return to find that an entire row that they once occupied is no longer theirs.
Something interesting is to take the safety side of it from the school’s perspective. Having kids sit away from the teachers without knowing who they were and a mentor was with them is a big nono for our school. Way too many people kid lost/kidnapped doing that in the past, and this is something to consider while making these decisions.
Way too many people kid lost/kidnapped doing that in the past, and this is something to consider while making these decisions.
**Facts please. ** Exactly how many roboteers lost? Is that roboteer lost and never returned? Never turning up even in the event lost and found pile? Hard to believe since they all seem to have team names or numbers on their shirts.
Kidnapped? Really, !?!, kidnap a high school age roboteer from the World’s championship with all those people in attendance? Numbers please!
This is EXACTLY the kind of made up nonsense and fear-mongering that keeps people from making rational plans and decisions.
[/rant over]
I like the scouting section, and I like the scouting badge/button idea. It would also turn to a positive “Want to have a great seat in the front three rows?. Be a team scout!”
I just returned from another championship - frustrated once again because teams seem to save MORE seats than they truly need.
Once again, I say down to watch a few matches in an empty seat to be harassed that the seat was being “saved” for someone else. I mentioned that seats are not to be saved only to be told that the people “just left” to which I always reply; “When the come back I would be happy to move” to which of course no one ever arrives. Saving seats is out of hand.
My proposed solution, send judges to the stands without a judges shirt on. Test the TRUE GP of teams in the stands, away from the judges table and see which teams are truly gracious. I would recommend this to all teams who have won a chairman’s award and especially to teams in contention for a chairman’s award on the championship. I believe the judges would be surprised as to how they are treated from some teams.
Everyone wants a good seat to watch matches, especially when it comes to watching their own team compete. They also like to have their team sit all together. I saw fairly large teams taking large sections of seats and covering them with coats, capes, banners and anything else they could use to save a section large enough for their team. There was one team that had at least 30 seats saved for their “scouts” and when I an another mentor wanted to take a couple of minutes to watch a few matches before we went back to the pits, it was mad clear several different times that these seats were for their scouts.
The other thing I saw is teams that want to stand and cheer for their team. This is fine during the introductions, or if the team is seated where they are not in front of others. We all want to cheer for our team but the people behind us also want to see the matches.
I like the idea of a scouting section, the number of seats per team should have a limit. However with 100 teams per division this year the number of scouting seats would add up fast.
Our team seems to always find seats that are less desirable so we do not have to deal with moving our feet and loosing our seat.
We will never solve the issue completely but as stated above sending the judges to the stands without judges shirts on would be interesting to say the least.
This might be a little out there, but hear me out.
Since we have the dome AND the convention center, what if we make scouting satellite to the dome? Have a room for each division with a bunch of chairs and outlets for laptops, and a huge screen/projector that gives a wide view of the entire field (one stationary camera with a wide view of the field versus the shoulder mounted views that the directors switch between)?
This way the scouts have the best view, they aren’t taking seats, and you don’t have to worry about people in front of you standing to block your view.
Who will want to scout basically by themselves for an entire day? And I know lots of teams use 6+ scouts, it’s going to have to be an awfully big room…
With the way the games are today, I would be VERY surprised if a team only had 1 person on their scout team.
I know a lot of the teams that I have interaction with have at least one person watching each robot on the field for the match, and they work in shifts so that the same kids aren’t scouting the entire competition.
I think sitting in the stands with a “scouting system” and watching every single match, trying to track the way every point is scored is terrible, and that data is of very little use to drivers/coaches/alliance captains at the end of the day. There are other, bigger questions that scouts should be much more worried about.
I am guessing a lot of teams are duplicating a majority of the data they take (how many penalties a robot commits, how many objectives a particular robot completes, etc). This is a wonderful opportunity to crowdsource the statistics on a web app or something, but the crowdsourcing idea runs into problems OTHER than not having internet at the venue.
If every team thinks that other teams will be recording the statistics, you end up with a dearth of contributors. Some teams will not want to put their scouting trust in a system of other teams. If the system/app goes down everyone participating loses their statistics, etc.