Hey guys…
We were thinking about leaving the Crio after ship date, and moving it to a 2nd bot or just an old bot, to practice driving/programming, and i wanted to know if you think that would be possible…
I know the rules are not out yet, just looking for some experienced guesses…
My educated guess would be “no.” I think FIRST would think of the cRIO as part of the robot and your robot has to be shipped on the ship date.We’ve had to pack our control systems in the crate in the past. This would be a large change from the past two years if they were to allow teams to keep the cRIO between ship and the regionals.
I would not expect FIRST to allow us to keep the electronics. They have not in the past.
I was just hoping that there is a little chance, as it is a new one, and more training on it would be greatly appreciated.
The robots will still stay the same, and this will only take out the advantage that some more lucy/skilled teams have, as many will buy 2 Crios etc.
see <R26> under 8.3.4
“The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withhold the ROBOT control system, the OPERATOR CONSOLE, and selected relevant subsystems, and access them after the shipping deadline. This will allow teams to have the maximum time possible prior to each competition event to develop and complete the software for their ROBOT while maximizing the potential to understand and use the capabilities provided by the new control system.”
See also the Feb 9 Q&A section 8 regarding intersection of Rule 35 and Rule 35. The CRio is a COTS or at least KOP exact replacement item (to itself), so in unassembled form, it is an unlimited COTS spare per rule 35, as far as I can tell from the quad-sylables in the Answer.
Whoa… that Q&A needs to be read by teams thinking about maximizing their options under the withholiding allowance. This is the link http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11854
It had not occurred to me that an assembled Toughbox might not count towards the 40 pounds of fabricated items (because it is COTS). Nor had it occurred to me that the cRio, if completely detached from the control board, was also COTS and wouldn’t count towards the limit. Presumably CIM motors, also COTS, don’t count towards the withholding weight limit, either.
As I reflect upon this, it seems to make sense, as a sufficiently wealthy team could just purchase spares of each of these, use them for testing and practice with their fabricated parts and then detach them and leave them at home… a bit of a waste, so why not exclude them from the withholding allowance and reduce the “money factor” a bit for everyone.
Now presumably this means that CIMs are also COTS, so if you keep back your (assembled, although not bolted to the robot) toughboxes, and a couple of CIMs, then that doesn’t count towards your 40 pound limit, so long as you have not modified them to become fabricated items.
This is important, particularly for teams doing one regional, later in the season who wish to maximize the benefit of the new withholding allowance. This is a big paradigm shift (one that I think I’m in favour of…) and it will probably take teams a season or two to get their heads wrapped around it. Theoretically, if you were good enough at building light enough, you might not have to ship ANYTHING in the crate on ship day. You’d have a busy morning on Thursday bolting everything together… but you would have had a bit of time to practice that in the preceeding weeks.
That is an extreme case, but for our team it means that we’ll spend the time between ship day and Seattle driving, developing auto code and working on traction control (The main frame and intake/shooter will ship on Tuesday, but the drive modules and control module have been built specifically with the withholding allowance in mind… but turned out to weigh more than hoped. Discounting the weight of the CIM, cRio and toughbox gears (all easily removable and reattachable) we’re back under 40 pounds! Finally the programmers will get their fair amount of time to work on the robot and not just the random moments between wrenchings and weldings in the last week of build!
Jason
I love extremes of all kinds, since they make any middle position seem more reasonable.
Here is another fun hypothetical design constraint to consider: “R35 only bot”
Design around or develop COTS sources for every single part of your robot, (ie custom cable lengths/ends, custom erector-set-frame lengths, prewired encoders and sensors) and design and practice-drill for rapid assembly.
With that extreme in mind, 40lbs of R36 seems like a middle ground.
Control panel is an empty board with mounting holes and pre-routed wires.
Wire stripers & crimpers & solder ready to go to reconnect the CIMS and other motors.
Big box of COTs, and step by step instructions, practice, practice, practice