It is very VERY hard to have this kind of argument without getting into one’s opinions. In my opinion…a shooter bot can get rid of the ball MUCH faster than an arm bot can and for the most part can do that without lining up or stopping.
It really is a matter of opinion and design. BOTH in some cases will be very effective and BOTH in some cases will be almost completely useless.
Our team has an arm. I was very impressed by the shooter, being able to do this on the run is very impressive.
I think our advantages in knocking down and placing on top will be challenged by shooters fast shooting.
The down side of a shooter can be easily overcome by good partners.
So it will be seen in actual competition how this plays out, but I am not discounting a good shooter.
Interesting you have two phases of competition, 1st being the preliminaries matches, where you might not have good partners. Second phase is the finals where you can create a balance.
I know that since we can do hybrid well and place and knock down we would like to have a good partner shooter to balance us out. So I think each will need each other in the finals.
concerning the blocking of the shooter, I understand this might be skewing the rule book but i was wondering if you guys might possibly consider blocking a ball in the air from the shooter as a violation of the protection while hurdling rule <G42> and even if it isn’t the force that it takes to project that ball over the overpass is so great that a team would not sacrifice its arm unless it was specifically made for blocking.
IF and ONLY IF the ball were clearly away from the robot (not contacting it in any way, shape, or form) would I consider it fair game for blocking. Once the ball has left the robot, the protection of <G42> no longer applies. You do need to be careful as to *where *you block it, as once it has crossed, it counts for 8 points for them once it hits your robot.
Standard disclaimer: I am not one of the game designers; therefore, I am not necessarily the most accurate source of game info. Q&A is.
<G42> protects a HURDLING robot (and the trackball it is holding) from “overt, blatant, or aggressive contact that interferes with the HURDLING attempt.” (emphasis mine) If an opponent can block a shooter without contact, and without impeding, it should be fine. This would be a question to ask in the meeting with the Head Ref on Friday morning of competition, to see how <G42> would be called. It most likely will be covered in referee training.
Like I said earlier this thread is 100% matter of opinion, while I can see shooters being very quick, i can also see the versatility of an arm. Its going to come down to ball capturability and overall effective design, just like it does every year.
What would really be cool is: 2 arm robots and a launcher. The arm robots capture the trackballs and load the launcher. Launcher fires, arm robot who just loaded it scurries under the overpass and grabs the ball, taking it around again. Meanwhile, the other arm robot comes in to reload the launcher. At the end of the game, the arm robots put the trackballs up, and the launcher crosses the finish line.
Inform me if I am wrong, but by definition, HURDLING is defined in the rules as the trackball ball top being positioned just above the top rail of the overpass, or higher. Therefore, unless shooters shoot from that level (minimum height), they are not considered in the act of hurdling, even though that may be the end result of their shooting the trackball. Therefore, it would seem, blocking the shot is well within acceptable defense. At least, that’s my interpretation of what I have read.
I realize that (I’ve seen 118’s video), but it might be more efficient if the launcher didn’t move and had two arm robots supporting it–similar to 2006’s “Atom Bomb” strategy. Twice the rate of fire sound good to you?
It’s always true how you execute your design is the deciding factor as to how successful it will be. However 118 showed how easy it is to make a great launcher. We contemplated copying that when we saw it. It would have been easy to do (the launcher anyway). I’ll bet a number of teams did. Why not?
However, all things being equal, this simply is the most efficient solution, mainly because of the clothesline factor. When executed properly you can’t score faster with a mechanism that goes above the overpass for a period of time during the score. So how you get the ball off the ground becomes important, but no reason a shooter can’t use the same mechanism an arm can.
Yes there will be plenty of arms scoring faster than shooters, but that will be because of execution or techniques. But if done right I can’t see how even the best arm (anything that goes above the overpass) could score faster than the best shooter.
Yes, but the shooters can probably zip around the track and fetch balls at about the same speed as the arm bots. Also some of the shooters (specifically pneumatic ones) probably need the time it takes to make a lap to recharge the air tanks.
Should be fun to see what interesting ways different alliances can come up with to play the game!
