# Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

What happens when you rotate the pyramid 45 degrees about the vertical axis?

If your climbing the corner, the angle you are climbing up at is 60 degrees

If you are climbing a side, you are climbing up at 68 degrees

Having the angle on the pole’s diagonal into the pyramid is different than the poles angle from a face of the pyramid.

Why would you attempt to climb from the side? especially with the bars on the outside.

Might be http://d.pr/i/zwM

Last year if you had a drive train you could have balanced if someone let a bridge down for you… Yet in almost 60% of matches NO ONE balanced.

…and yet we let bridges down for lots of people and didn’t get a balance with them at Buckeye…

Proving my point that teams seem to have this lack of ability to do even the simplest tasks reliably.

Not that they cant, they dont have the coaching to help and guide them towards that. Teams these days try to do the hardest tasks without realizing there ability might not go beyond the simple things.

FIRST provides evidence that many of us are optimists. I predict matches in the single digits and low doubles for the majority of regional seeding matches.

Ya our districts will be the same more than likely. Michigan is hard though!

If it’s any help, I think that less than less than 10% of FIRST teams will be able to outscore a 30pt hang using a 10 pt hang and disc pts accumulated during the last 30 seconds, and only 40% of teams will be able to outscore a 20pt hang during the last 30 seconds with discs and a 10pt.

If you can 30pt hang, (for most regions) that will automatically win you 60% of your qualifying matches. That’s why it’s so restrictive to 30pt hang this year; because it’s so valuable.

Anecdotally I want to agree with you but numerically the difference is not very big. The scoring distribution shifts to the right by a tiny amount.

You don’t have to necessarily outscore them in the last 30 seconds if they can only shoot 2 Frisbee and the rest of the time they focus on lining up for hanging or defense and in that time you can score 4-5 loads of 4 disc in the 3 pt goal, 2 during auto in 3pt goal, and a 10 point hang in last couple seconds that is a max of 82 points.

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Actually its 68°.

Also I agree with your second statement. Our team is planing on climbing the side pole because we felt it would be easier.

I made a quick little spreadsheet for choosing where to hang. All you have to do is set how long you think it will take to hang on each level, and how long it would take to do a full cycle of picking up and shooting frisbees.

http://ge.tt/37zgzjV/v/0?c

It’s really straightforward, it does assume you make all of your shots in the top goal with 100% accuracy. I don’t know if it will be at all useful, but I already have it so here it is.

I ment that it would be easier than the face of the pyramid. Sorry for not clarifying.

I do think shooting would be easier than climbing to the 3rd level, but if you can climb to the 3rd level than you would be a valuable alliance member. If you can climb to the top and put four colored disks in the top goal than you would score 50 points. If partner with an accurate shooter then they can shoot while you play defense then hang. Since your robot would not use the white disks there would be more for your alliance members.

I think the best alliances will be comprised of a climbing robot, a shooting robot, and a defense/feeder robot (to shoot disks to the shooter).

I don’t think there has ever been a true/effective “defense/feeding robot”. The best teams are usually the two best primary scorers that can team up with the best defense/secondary objective specialist left on the board.

I think a 50 point climb robot and a very accurate shooter robot would be your primary scorers. If you have two shooting robots and no robot at the opposite end of the field that can feed the other two than they won’t be able to put up too many points because they have to travel back and forth. My team was hoping to play the role of 50 point climb and feeder if we have enough time. The best alliance will have a dedicated climber, dedicated shooter, and dedicated feeder. This ensures that your feeder will have plenty of disks and can shoot often while the climbing robot scores 50. This theoretical alliance should easily clear 100 points if your climber doesn’t mess up.

Saying as how you were quoting a corner climb post, no.

Here’s a picture to help everyone out. This is the updated pyramid CAD after FIRST

If you are climbing the outside of the corner (The first pic), this is the angle that really matters for you. You will be ascending at a 60 degree angle.

If you climb a face of the pyramid (e.g. NOT the corner) then you will be ascending at a 68 degree angle (2nd pic)

I doubt many teams will be able to score 30 shooting points, even in all of teleop. On the other hand, almost no one will be able to climb for 30.

My analysis: if you can climb for 30 (ie, you are a powerhouse/strong team), it’s worth considering. Most teams will not attempt to hang for 30, and that’s ok. Some will be able to make up the difference by hanging for 10 and shooting well, but most will not. A bot that can hand and dump for 50 consistently will be effectively unbeatable in a 1v1 match against almost any other robot. A robot that can score in auto and can climb and dump would be hard pressed to lose a match.

In short, climbing is worth it, but it’s still very, very hard.

Both pure shooters and pure hangers have loads of strategic value in this game. I think teams should pick the one that plays best into their resources.

Can’t wait to see the alliance selections for this year. I love games like this and 2012 where picking is so much more complex than “rank the robots in order of points scored”.