Shop Tools, Hand Tools, HELP?

FIRST General Forum
1

During our 2012 rookie season, we used only hand tools to build our robot. We are now looking to purchase some tools for more accuracy and efficiency. Last year we worked at the back of our teacher’s physics classroom, we are now looking to convert half of the classroom into our robotics workshop, with some kind of semi-permanent division between the classroom and workshop.

We have:

  • wired jig-saw
  • wired circular saw
  • wired drill
  • almost dead cordless drill, will have to be replaced before season
  • 3-5 hacksaws with metal and wood blades
  • 2 hammers
  • a smattering of clamps
  • wrenches (two sets of allen, two sets of box-open combo, two sets of socket)
  • a pair of digital calipers

The list above is the tools I remember being used most frequently, not tools used for one specific job.

I need suggestions for machine tools as well as any other hand tools that you guys use very often. Specific models and/or brands are even better. Obviously anything CNC will be more expensive, but it will also improve accuracy and repeatability. We think some useful things would be:

  • many more drills (cordless or wired?, looking at this)
  • more hammers
  • more wrenches (allens with handles, ratcheting, sockets)
  • reciprocating saw
  • any tools that will help in getting accurate measurements
  • many vises, mounted on sturdy work tables
  • arbor press
  • mill
  • lathe
  • miter saw (maybe compound?)
  • band saw (horizontal or vertical?)
  • table saw
  • drill press
  • bench grinder
  • disc/belt sander
  • I’ve heard cold saw, but I don’t know if that is a different saw type or just a different type of blade
  • combo setups of any of the above (such as a 3-in-1 mill, lathe, drill press)
  • no one on the team can weld at the moment, but if anyone learns we would need welding tools as well
  • someone suggested an 82 tooth carbide blade for cutting Aluminum up to 4in, what tool is this on?

We will be looking to buy at least one nice worktable with a peg board, similar to this. We’ll also probably build some tables that we will be able to beat to death, then replace/repair cheaply. We didn’t and still don’t have a well organized workspace. Any suggestions on methods of organization are welcome as well.

I’ve tried searching for tools, but the results are too wide ranging to help. Thanks! :smiley:

2

What kind of budget are you working with?

Have you looked for tool donations?

Have you tried getting machining sponsors? Parent sponsors? Parents lending tools for the team?

More info with help us help you!

3

I’ll have to talk to our treasurer for budget but we are looking to compile a list of tools from highest priority to least. Last year we had a few parts machined by a parent sponsor who had a contract with a machine shop, but this year he won’t be with us anymore. We have begun looking for machine shops in the area but last year we had at least one negative response from a shop. One of our members also said his dad may be able to lend us tools, but that member hasn’t shown up for a while.

Right now I’m looking to compile a list, being as specific as possible, because we have someone who is looking to sponsor us that is asking for the list. I do not know how much he/she/they are willing to spend for any donated tools, so I want the list to be as comprehensive as possible.

Thanks!

4

Drill press, a couple of extra drills, Dremel and tools, some more wrenches of various sizes, vices, bench grinder, belt/disk sander (wood and aluminum don’t agree with benchtop grinders in general). Probably some tape measures and a few more pairs of calipers. A couple of vices are good; if you’re getting a drill press, get a 2-axis vice that you can mount to it and you get better accuracy. Oh, and right: Center punch (used with a hammer to make sure holes don’t drift when you start drilling).

A good solid chop saw can probably do most of the functions of a miter saw and table saw (and to some extent a horizontal bandsaw); if you get one where the blade can slide in and out with respect to the pivot point, you get some limited table saw ability as well.

The larger tools like a lathe, mill, or 3-in-1 combo are going to be a little trickier to deal with. If you don’t get a desktop/benchtop unit, you could be sacrificing a lot of floor space and you’ll definitely need some funding or a donated unit and tools.

For storage, use the KOP totes, and get some similar ones. Label. Stick to what’s on the labels. Use to store robot parts, motors, wheels, motion components, pneumatics, etc. Repeat with a multi-drawer toolbox, ideally rolling, with tools inside.

There is one tool that I don’t see on your list that could be very useful, if light duty. That is a 3D printer. There are some desktop models in the $2K range; they build plastic parts. If you can do CAD, they can make life a lot easier on smaller parts–and they can do both round and squareish parts. The BeachBots put some parts made by one we got from http://thefutureis3d.com/ on their robot last year, and those parts ain’t failed yet. (Also note that this is something that could go into the classroom portion–it doesn’t spit chips everywhere.)

5

This is especially important if you’re sharing space with a classroom (we currently do) - lock up anything that you don’t want walking away. Try to commandeer a locker (or a few) in the hallway if you have them available near your room for storage too.

6

I like Eric’s approach, he seems to have it covered pretty well.

Your list includes a lot of stuff that is nice to have but definitely not necessary.

Having several work tables, at least two with a vise attached, is a good idea, if you have room for them. Also make sure you have room to play with (test drive) the robot, without having to go too far from your workshop.

I think if you present a relatively modest list the odds are better that someone will step up and help you. If you come right out asking for $100k of equipment, you might not get too far.

After a drill press and a vertical band saw, I’d be looking for a lathe.

7

Ask local businesses and families if they have an old vertical bandsaw or drill press you can buy or they would donate. Search craigslist for good deals. If not, you can get a small Ryobi 9" bandsaw. Make sure you get a good quality metal cutting blade to go with it.

If you are a young team on a small budget, don’t be afraid of starting out with some Harbor Freight hand tools, Northern Tools. For power tools, a higher quality is recommended for safety and reliability. Don’t go thinking you need the best of the best right away either. If you have a limited budget, splurge a bit on something like a good chop saw and power drills which will last you a long time. Slowly, you’ll build up a really solid arsenal of tools. If you do have the money, however, get good quality products that will last a long time and be safe. Good drill bit sets always help too.

A personal favorite of mine - right angle drill with carbide drill bits. Soooo helpful sometimes.

For some good deals - check out Tool Barn.com

8

The list is specifically for one confirmed sponsor (since I do not know their price range), and then will act as our team’s general tool wishlist. If another sponsor comes up saying they have $X to help us purchase a tool, I will definitely only ask for items within their range.

Last season, we had the long hallway right outside our room as our test space.

In terms of priorities, this is what I have generalized from the above posts, if anyone has any comments on priorities or specific model suggestions, please do not hesitate to comment. Anything with a 1 is a definite purchase, especially if it is one of the lower priced tools.

  1. many more drills (at least one right-angle w/ carbide bits)
  2. more hammers
  3. more wrenches (allens with handles, ratcheting, sockets)
  4. any tools that will help in getting accurate measurements (what else besides calipers?)
  5. many vises, mounted on sturdy work tables
  6. drill press
    2.1) arbor press (a reasonably priced one)
  7. chop saw (miter saw + table saw functions)
  8. band saw (horizontal or vertical?)
  9. miter saw (maybe compound?)
  10. table saw
  11. bench grinder
  12. disc/belt sander
  13. lathe
    5.1) mill
    5.2) combo setups of any of the above
  14. reciprocating saw
  15. welding equipment? (only if we have members learn)

I’ve heard of cold saw, but I don’t know if that is a different saw type or just a different type of blade.

Someone suggested an 82 tooth carbide blade for cutting Aluminum up to 4in, what tool is this on?

To Eric, we do have a large selection of various sized center punches, we just have to train members how to correctly utilize them. :rolleyes: Last year, we had people banging on them like they were nails, causing the punches to hop around and leaving inaccurate imprints. I’ll also have to bring the 3D printer up with our mentors, seems like a great idea. The storage also brings up another question, we really are unsure how to pack things for competition. Should we buy/build storage planning to transport/ship them to competitions? Or have a separate set of competition hand tools?

Sarah, we will always have to keep security in mind. No one can afford to have anything walking off. It’s a welcome reminder no one can hear too much of.

Akash, I’ll keep Craigslist, the local paper, Tool Barn, and Harbor Freight all in mind. Your comments on drill bits actually brings up another question. Should we be going for solid carbide or just carbide tipped? And I’ve heard something about a stepped bit, is that what we need for drilling aluminum? Any other drill bit types we might want in handy? We also worked with wood and plastic this year, and all this work was done on one set of bits.

Thanks for the help so far guys!

9

This isn’t necessary at all, I was just stating one of my favorite power tools.

As for carbide bits - we really only keep 1 or 2 around, and those were for cleanly drilling through rivets quickly. They aren’t necessary either.

Recommended item - set of hole saws.

10

When you suggested the right-angle drill, it was a “that would’ve been helpful” moment. I can’t tell you how many times I was personally looking to drill a hole only to find out our drill didn’t fit in the space.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hole saws are to cut bigger holes? What material would you suggest if we mainly work on aluminum?

11

Shop Tools,

Here is what I would recommend:
Buy a tool box with several drawers
Buy a good mechanics set with both metric and SAE style wrenches which includes wrenches, rachets, and sockets.
Buy Allen Wrenches, metric and English.
Buy SAE hardware from #2 to 5/16" up to 2 1/2 inches
Specalize in 1/4 -20 either Grade 5 or Grade 8 – Bolt Depot
It is unavoidable that some hardware will be metric.
Buy one vice with at least 6" expansion and 4" jaws.
Buy at least 6 Quick Clamps 12"
Buy a least 4 Bar Clamps with about a 18" opening.
A Drill pres will be about $350 to $500
Belt Sander is between $99 and $200.
The Stout Pro 200 is a good Band Saw
Digital Measuring Devices- Verniers about 2 is needed
Tape Measures about two or three are needed
Scribe to mark measurements before drilling or cutting
Crimpers and Strippers for Electrical

These are few things I can think of that have worked for us. We are still building our shop.

12

For drills, Makitas are the best I’ve used, and they will put up with some serious abuse. Dewalts are good too.
For wrenches, now is a great time to think about what style of fastener you like. I love SHCS, so I would buy based on that. You probably won’t need a whole lot of torx keys or allen keys if you like hex head bolts though.

Calipers, tape measures, and rulers are all I can think of that you would need. (for now). Micrometers and all that good stuff is well beyond what most teams will ever need.

As far as big tools go, I would say forget about the chop saw, miter saw, table saw, bench grinder, welding equipment, or any combo mill-lathe type tools for now. A band saw will take you pretty far, and the other tools are nice to have, but definitely not essential. A lathe is pretty good to have. If you can, I would spring for an old bridgeport instead of a drill press. Cost is probably pretty prohibitive though.

EDIT: I should probably make it clear that I’ve never heard anything good about combo mill/lathe machines and I absolutely wouldn’t buy one.

Other important stuff in no particular order:
A decent sized tool box that you can take to competition (small enough for 2 people to carry)
Collapsible shelving units for your pit
Irwin quick clamps
A big box of fasteners
Complete set of drill bits
Rivets and rivet gun
Electrical tools (whatever those are…)
Air compressor

It sounds like you’re well on your way to having a better equipped shop than anything at my university.

13

It might be too much for most teams to buy one, but I’d like to point out that a lot of local community colleges have one, often much larger and more expensive higher-quality ones. Our local CC has one which we will hopefully have access to this year, and it’s far higher quality than what we could buy on our own.

14

Just one other thing I just thought of…

do you have a local technical school near you? You might be able to partner with them and they might be willing to help you guys out with machining of parts and welding. This is where you might also find access to a nice printer or computers.

F22Rapture bringing up community colleges made me think about it.

15

A great off-season activity is to build your own. http://www.reprap.org/wiki/RepRap We’re in the process of building our 2nd. It costs about $600 to build one from scratch using linear bearings. The one we have draws a crowd at events. Once you have one, you can use it to print parts for more.

16

There’s a pretty nice 3d printer in our school’s Engineering classroom…we’ve had Engineering students on the robot team for a few years…and we have yet to figure out a robot part that we could print with it. I would look at other things to spend money on.

It sounds like you need put in some “shop class” time before you get too far along buying tools. Knowing how to use them is vital.

17

Might be a bit more than that–I was trying to come up with a number for how much a Mendel Basic (which is a RepRap printer) would cost if the plastic parts are already built, and came up with about $1K for everything. Admittedly, I didn’t shop around much–the site I linked before, if you click on the “Store” tab, has almost all of the kit parts/electronics. The cost comes down if you find more local/cheaper sources. (The other thing about that site: The customer service is outstanding.) They ship a full-up printer, verified to work and fully assembled, for about $2000, so if a sponsor is funding it, it isn’t a whole big chunk of budget.

The storage thing is something that you’ll have to decide, but what I would do is be able to bring as much of the stuff as you can. That means portable toolboxes, rolling or not, that you can take out of the shop and stick in a vehicle. One set of tools probably isn’t going to be enough at the competition. Bring 3. That’s also where the KOP bins come in; they stack nicely under a table. When I was on a college engineering competition team, about the only thing from the shop we didn’t take to competition was the workbench–we brought folding tables in the trailer instead. Figured if we didn’t need it, someone else did.

Gray, I think you’ve got it reversed. I know of teams who’ve gone years with a miter/chop combo saw and no vertical bandsaw–about the only thing it can’t do is turning cuts. That’s why I put a Dremel (OP, take note–I’d put that at a 1 and it’s fairly cheap) on the list, as it’s a highly versatile tool that can help with making turning cuts. The Bridgeport instead of a drill press–Sorry, but a used Bridgeport can run in the $2500-$5000 range and that’s without tooling. A 2-axis vice for a drill press can give some mill functionality; you just have to go slower when cutting a slot. And like I said, without knowing how much space they’ve got available, I’m willing to bet that a mill will take up an awful lot of it.

18

Saw this and had to comment: Skyhook’s intake roller had a pair of hubs that came off a 3D printer, complete with the “standard” 6-hole bolt pattern. And the box containing Skyhook’s IMU came off the same printer. And at that point, we’d had the printer about a month, maybe 2. When I was in college, we got some plugs for a robot’s frame built on their high-quality one.

19

If you’re stuck for space and/or cash, you might consider a combo mill/lathe/drill. It won’t do any of these tasks as well as the individual tools might, and it’s small (but so, relatively, are the robots), but it wouldn’t take up too much space and would at least provide you these capabilities at a lower cost than the individual machines.

I think that there are other teams who use one of these as (one of?) their primary machine.

A quick google search (“combo lathe mill”) will show you a number. From what I’ve read, there’s basically a price/quality relationship. The more you pay the better the tool, so, if you go this route, buy the best you can afford.

20

If you’re looking for larger machines, try industrial auctions. We picked up a Bridgeport in good condition for ~$750 including vice and a set of R8 collets. Just watch your voltages as many industrial machines are 600V. To meet school regualtions, we have to install a magnetic swtich as well and fix up the guarding.