Sitting down during matches

FIRST General Forum
1

I feel like I’m beating a dead horse here, but I would like to express this once again to hopefully continue to try and change the culture…

I’m still frustrated at teams that stand during the matches. I know I’ve mentioned and discussed this here before, and I know teams have been doing it for years…but I really don’t think it is necessary…

During the championship event, I tried talking to a few teams about it (instead of just yelling “sit down” at teams) and received mixed a response. Anything from VERY rude “Hey…we’ve been doing this for years and if you don’t like it, don’t come” to people actually considering it and sitting down. I was surprised at how rude I was reacted to when all I wanted to do was talk and express why… (the team shall remain nameless).

However, we sat up in the very back row and I can tell you for sure this. Not only did you block all the teams and scouts behind you (yes…as you pointed out…we can stand up too…but it’s hard with laptops, notepads, etc…) but the little kids they tried to stand up still couldn’t see. And the two grandmas that were sitting next to us (one in a wheelchair) couldn’t see either (and if you would like to tell her to stand up…be my guest).

I completely understand and expect for your team to stand during the team announcements, but why do you have to stand during the match and block everyone behind you? Just because you’ve always done it? I feel this is along the same lines as saving seats…but more rude.

So…I’m posting this to hopefully have people think about this before you go to your next competition. I will continue to ask teams to sit down during matches so my niece and nephew and the grandparents can see. I will continue to be polite when I do it…I will continue to try and NOT have a negative opinion of your team because of it.

Hopefully you will consider your actions and realize I’m just trying to change the culture for the better…

Thanks.

2

Hi Don,

I have mixed agreement with you here. I think that if teams want to stand during their matches they should be able to do so, but also need to take this into account when selecting where their are seated.

It is possible to stand and cheer during a match without blocking anyone elses view. There are plenty of seats diagonally to the side of the field and at the top of each section.

If teams want to stand and cheer then they should not grab seats that are front and center.

I thought in our division that team 33 provided an excellent axample of where to sit if you want to stand and cheer, they were diagonally off to the right side of the field and I don’t think they blocked anyones view by standing and cheering. There are teams that sat in the center that did block everyones view behind them, and it was quite frustrating.

3

Yes Rob, I thought 33 did provide an excellent example of this as well. 33 was one of the teams I talked with in our division and made the change of seats on Saturday and I really respect them for it.

And you are right. There are usually corner sections that are usually smaller that would be perfect for this. The KB’s looked great filling that section. Looked like a Hive…

4

This continues to be a challenging topic and there is no good ansswer.

I am thrilled that our team wants to stand and cheer and be supportive when we are on the field, and i also understand that it can block others, especially in Atlanta where the stands are a very low angle incline.

I think we compromised with those around us and stood during the intro, and then the last 20 seconds of the match, but were sitting during the other times.

5

I also have mixed feelings here. I was asked during a match to sit down so the person behind me (a scouter for a team that was not on the field) could see. I moved to the side so that I was not blocking their view, but there is no way I was going to sit and look at the rear ends of the team in front me while my team was on the field.

I found that even though I am 6’ 4" tall, I couldn’t see important parts of the field from a sitting position, even if the people in front of me were seated (a rare occurrence in itself).

I noticed a sort of perpendicular wave going on. The front row would stand, then the next row (because they were now blocked) and so on, up the stands. I see no real way to control this.

6

Thanks for recognizing the efforts.

Our team has always stood during the matches to show solidarity and enthusiasm for the team. Having won a couple spirit awards, and as a mentor, I will say this is actually expected of them.

I heard the other side of this before reading this post. I was told that there were some that handled the situation politely (this might have been you Don) and others that just yelled. One of our mentors told our team that they needed to move if they wanted to stand and so that is what they decided to do. This was possible at this venue, but that is not always the case.

Don has actually put together the best argument I have heard for not standing. If everyone can agree on allowing standing during the anouncements and when action is not occurring on the field (i.e. must sit when the match starts until it is over), I can propose that. My students will be dissappointed, but I feel that they should be able to understand the scouting issues they are causing (by the way, we use paper to scout to get around the standing issue, but I see your point). This format will allow them to cheer when their teammates notice it most, and dance and enjoy themselves between matches (for many students, that is part of what makes FIRST special for them).

I must say though that I am a bit worried about the slippery slope effect. If we granted everyones wish to the least offensive format, we would be sitting the entire time, everyone would be very quiet (so as not to offend the noise persons), and the music would be brought down about 20 dB and switched over to easy listening. The infectious enthusiasm is such an important part to the culture of FIRST that they give a Team Spirit award. Our team has won this award because they have such great spirit for their team, and they cheer for the friends they have met (they will even change seats after being eliminated to go help other teams cheer).

I am OK with improvements, but please be careful when making cultural and inspirational changes.

7

Standing during a match is absolutely unecessary. Almost all the time you can see every aspect of the field sitting down, as long as the people in front of you are sitting down. If you need a little more height sit on your legs.

When watching Einstein, the team in front of us sat down except for one woman that after asking her to sit down she tried to get the rest of her team to stand up, and they refused. Thank you to those around her for being courteous to us and the other teams behind us.

8

I think that it goes back to GP. People need to think about the people who are behind them to be able to see, not that it should be a requirement though.

As for the people yelling sit down…I think that needs to go back to GP. I know my team, that did not stand DURING the match, though it was rude that the team were yelling from their seats to sit down.

Think about GP before you act!

9

I will admit that some of our parents/mentors did yell “sit down” and I asked them to not do that. So, I apologize for that.

10

Just another option… 2046’s usual approach is we sit for most of the match, but when we get a large dump of orbit balls/score a supercell/see our alliance score two trackballs simultaneously/score the last innertube necessary for a full ring on the rack/etc., we’ll jump up and cheer at the tops of our lungs, just like for a football team scoring a touchdown or something; 8 seconds later we’re all seated to me. Maybe this discussion is excluding this type of occurrence and everybody does this as well, but my point being is your team doesn’t have to solely sit or stand for the entire match.

Granted I’ve never been a driver, so I’m not sure to what degree different habits give the best support to those on the field, but it seems to me that emphasizing the best points of the game actually give the support some significance. Getting even more personal for a second, I don’t give a standing ovation to every award at the awards ceremony either, as I feel an award like Chairman’s or WFA deserves a greater recognition than i.e. website award (sorry webdevs). Same kind of idea. That last part might be a bit more controversial…

Just my $0.02
–Ryan

11

From what I remember from driving, during team intro’s you look into the crowd see your team stand and cheer for you and all that and it’s great, but once the match starts that’s just background noise and your pretty focused on what’s going on on the field. I can’t remember one time where I noticed whether my team was standing or sitting while we were playing on the field.

Does anyone remember back when it was at Epcot they had those sections up front for the teams that were competing to go into? I don’t really remember if you could stand there the whole time but it was split off from the stands. Don’t know if there is any way to do this in ATL though.

12

Hmmm…how about a vertical playing field? climbing robots…

(as usual, I mistakenly look for a technical solution to a social problem)

13

As someone who was shouting “Sit Down”, I think it may be impolite, but there isn’t really a better way to get your request across when someone (or an entire team) stands up in front of you. A few times over the weekend I was yelled at to sit down when I was in the front taking pictures, and I complied because I know how infuriating it is to miss your match that you waited hours for because someone inconsiderate feels they need to see it more than you do. Talking to them politely after the match is a good thing to do, but it doesn’t fix the fact that you fully missed the match due to their actions. I think the fact that it has to be shouted in the loud environment of the dome makes it sound angrier and less polite than the request is.

I applaud the bees for moving to the diagonal section (the view from there is a good bit worse), but it shouldn’t have taken nearly the entire crowd behind them chanting “Thirty Three! Sit Down!” (which, admittedly, is nearly as impolite as standing up in the first place) and several parents talking to them afterwards for them to have realized that standing up during a match at the front of the stands is inconsiderate.

we would be sitting the entire time, everyone would be very quiet (so as not to offend the noise persons), and the music would be brought down about 20 dB and switched over to easy listening

Poor comparison: Standing up removes others’ ability to see matches. Shouting loudly or playing loud music may make it less comfortable for other spectators, but they are still able to enjoy the games with earplugs. Unfortunately, x-ray specs are to expensive for us to employ to see through teams that stand up.

14

I know that it is very frustrating when the people in front of you stand up. For Thursday and Friday we sat behind teams that would stand sometimes. Most of the people in my group either stood up with them. For the guy taking pictures he went down and asked them if they would please sit down for future matches because he was unable to get the shots that he wanted.

On the other hand, when our team would score big our entire team would stand up and cheer, and sometimes not sit back down because of the hype, we did not know that we were even doing it.

I did see some people looking mad :mad: while they were yelling at the team to sit down. I think that people need to remember that everyone is there for a good time, and no one is standing in front of you just to make you mad, and if you were polite and asked them to sit, they would.

15

I am one of those parents who yell sit down during the match- and there is nothing unGP about it. The un-GP part is when people stand up the whole match and block everyone behind them due to lack of consideration. Un-gracious.

When they do it over and over you sometimes need to yell a reminder. Sorry if it offends but it is far less offending than being totally blocked by oblivious people.

So hate me and call me a p—k- just do it sitting down. Thankyou

WC

16

A few years back (probably more like 10) I was very upset when my team all continued to stand during a match and blocked my view. I shouted at them to “sit down”, and I still recall the looks of shock and anger from my own engineers and students. They thought that I obviously wasn’t supporting the team, and it caused alot of bad feelings between them and I.
I was sitting behind my team, and next to another team - and I thought “how rude” - they are ignoring everyone else in order to justify their endeavor to show “team spirit and support”.
I really understood the rationale they had communicated to me - but I still didn’t agree with what they were using as justification.
I understand standing during introductions, but not DURING the match.
I discussed this afterwards with some of the engineers and students, but I do not think we ever came to an agreement as to what the proper thing to do was. Good Luck solving this one.

17

This has been a problem for years, as Don noted. I have a simple solution:

Any team that stands in the way of other teams’ scouts during their own matches doesn’t get scouted. Doesn’t matter how good they are, they just get a note: “Couldn’t see the robot for the team.” If they’re standing in front of enough top 8 seeds, they won’t get picked. Simple, right?

OK, so that’s over the top. But I do want to remind teams that like to stand throughout the entire match that there are more than likely scouts behind you who can’t see your robot while you are standing! And if there’s a single group of people who you want to see your robot, it’s the scouts. Without a designated scouting area (which no regional has, to my knowledge), the scouts sit with their teams. Should a team stand through the match, the scouts behind said team just plain can’t see. Odds are, they also can’t stand up easily due to scouting devices such as laptops, paper sans clipboards, PDAs, gear they are using as writing surfaces, etc. Think about it.

I have no problem with standing during announcements, exciting plays, any time when no action is occurring, awards, or individuals moving around. Once again, those are not a problem. However, if you’re going to stand through your matches, please find a) the designated cheering areas, if any or b) a place up high at the back or side so that others can see. That way, the scouts, photographers, little kids, and people who don’t want to (or can’t) stand up.

I would like to note, I worked on the floor at the L.A. regional. I was the retriever for most of what came over the audience-side field border. If I wasn’t doing anything, I was sitting down on my rear as close to the stands as possible. I was deliberately trying to keep myself out of the line of sight of the judges, scouts, photographers, and people like that who need a clear shot at the field but can’t be on the floor next to the field, yet I still needed to be available to block almost anything that came my way. Why? Because I was a scout during my HS years, and I know they don’t like blocked vision. I know the judges (right above me, in the stands) don’t appreciate it either. Same for the shutterbugs.

My point? If there is robot action happening on the field, sit down even if it is your team so that others can enjoy watching too. (Exceptions if it’s an exciting dump/massive score shift/stuff like that–but please sit down once it’s over as a courtesy.)

18

I know that MOE has been a “stand up and cheer team” many times. Generally, we do what others have mentioned, stand and cheer during intros and sit down during the match. If something great happens on the field, we might do an “unplanned stand.” It doesn’t have to be positive either. Last year, our bot, DynaMOE, tipped over a few times over the course of the season. I have video of some of our team members standing up suddenly when that happened. [Blocked the video of the field, too] People are human and will do these things.

I totally agree that standing during a match blocks others’ view and should not happen. I also realize that when teams go to events, they gather team groupies that support the team, but are not team members. We try to educate team members on what we expect, but usually do not have the opportunity to train parents, family members, etc.

So, I agree that we all should sit down. As has been suggested here, if teams do stand, let’s try to politely, but sternly let them know why it is important for everyone that we are all sitting during a match.

Thanks for starting the thread. Just don’t get me started about saving seats! :rolleyes:

19

I’ve done both, meaning yelling “sit down” and politely talking to a team. In Lunacy I had 973’s scouts count the number of balls scored and those in the trailer at the end of a match, so any time someone stands up could be a serious problem to the accuracy of the data. I only resort to the yelling if it’s not the first time I’ve had to ask someone to sit down, I’m not perfect, I get frustrated.

The teams that yell and scream are a different issue entirely. It doesn’t interfere with data, and while a little annoying if they’re yelling while their own team isn’t on the field, still understandable for the Spirit Award. I hope I’m not the only one who wishes that there isn’t an award for who can lose their voice first though. :slight_smile:

20

maybe the team should have a place for them to stand and cheer for their team just like in regionals this could keep people moving and showing thier support! this also helps too see your team up close
this means there would be a place to stand but also allow the other team to watch form the stands and also the only teams that can be there are those who are on the floor ready to play. this could make everyone happy.