SME cards ????? what are they for....?

Posted by nick237 at 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST

Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.

So I filled out the request for the new SME card because we were told that we had to have it for “SPECIAL EVENTS” like the regional party. Guess what, you dont need it. no one needed it in Hartford but I would love to know if anyone needed it for any other regional.
I cant believe that the people at FIRST intend to check the Gazzillion people as they enter the team party in Florida, there usualy is a mad rush and a stampeed for the food so any SME fool that gets in the way is going to get killed by a mob of feet.
I didnt like giving out personal information that was requested in order to receive a “special” card but was told that if I didnt give the info I would not get the card and there for would not get any of the specials that were planed. If you all recall we were told the same thing last year and the cards were never looked at.
I still think that the SME card is a false ploy to get private demographic information on individuals, to what end im not sure. so it will be interesting to see what “if any” use will be found for the cards.
Whats your thoughts on the reasons for the cards.
nick237

Posted by Matt Ryan at 03/06/2001 8:30 PM EST

Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and Gillette.

In Reply to: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by nick237 on 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST:

Not only that, they were also 2-3 weeks late (they said to allow 2 weeks for shipping, I got mine between 4 and 5 weeks after I ordered it).

I agree with you somewhat.

You never know. Someone might TRY to enforce that rule, but its 30,000 hungry people vs. that one SME person. Guess who would win?

In many ways, I share your views.

Posted by Hymnson at 03/06/2001 8:35 PM EST

Student on team #419, The Rambots, from Boston College High School and UMass Boston and Modern Assistance Programs, Inc…

In Reply to: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by nick237 on 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST:

Yea about that…I was told that we needed those cards inorder to get into the after party in Epcot but I also think they are totally useless and just an attempt to figure out demographics and such. The idea can proves many troubles such as anyone with access to the internet and knownledge of FIRST could just order one of those cards and waltz into Epcot for the party absolutely free. I dunno, maybe I’m just confused and babbling about nothing but thats how I feel.

Posted by Nate Smith at 03/06/2001 8:41 PM EST

Other on team #66, Frostbite, from Willow Run High School and GM Powertrain.

In Reply to: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by nick237 on 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST:

: So I filled out the request for the new SME card because we were told that we had to have it for “SPECIAL EVENTS” like the regional party. Guess what, you dont need it. no one needed it in Hartford but I would love to know if anyone needed it for any other regional.
: I cant believe that the people at FIRST intend to check the Gazzillion people as they enter the team party in Florida, there usualy is a mad rush and a stampeed for the food so any SME fool that gets in the way is going to get killed by a mob of feet.
: I didnt like giving out personal information that was requested in order to receive a “special” card but was told that if I didnt give the info I would not get the card and there for would not get any of the specials that were planed. If you all recall we were told the same thing last year and the cards were never looked at.
: I still think that the SME card is a false ploy to get private demographic information on individuals, to what end im not sure. so it will be interesting to see what “if any” use will be found for the cards.
: Whats your thoughts on the reasons for the cards.
: nick237

Based on what I heard today, there were some issues in getting the cards out, so they are not YET requiring them for party admission…

Nate

Posted by Steve Pierce at 03/06/2001 9:50 PM EST

Student on team #288, Robodawgs, from Grandville High School and X-Rite/Delphi.

In Reply to: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by nick237 on 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST:

As a member of the team where this concept kinda started, I know that the point of the card is to track the participants of FIRST and use the information to present the info to possible sponsors. Filling out the card takes very little time, and is fairly painless, but it gives FIRST a great deal of info about us and the scope of the program as a whole. That is why engineers, students, and everyone who is a participant is expected to sign up for the card. This way FIRST can see who is becomming engineers, etc.

As for the enforcement of having the card, I don’t really know, but if we want to continue this great program and gain new sponsors, then filling out a little form isn’t a big deal.

steve

Posted by Clinton Hamilton at 03/06/2001 9:59 PM EST

Student on team #108, SigmaC@T, from Dillard High School and Motorola.

In Reply to: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by nick237 on 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST:

Let’s theoretically assume for a moment that 2
things that have been mentioned are true (mainly
because I don’t want to draw conjectures that I
can’t support) and look at this rationally :

Assumption 1) Checking them is completely
impractical (I won’t debate this as it’s more a issue
of logistics than anything else. After all they did ask
to see the armbands at Nats last year)

Assumption 2) The real reason that FIRST wants
you to have the cards is because they want to
collect demographics on the people involved.

If you assume that the two above statements are
true you still end up with a weak argument for not
getting the cards.

Maybe I’m just too open with personal information
for my own good. But personally I don’t have any
problem giving away my personal information to
responsible organizations like FIRST and SME. If
demographics of FIRST team members can help
FIRST grow I’m all for it. Heck they can come by my
house and take a DNA sample if they want to study
the genetic traits of a FIRST junkies. We live in an
information age. Power is in the information that
you control. Being able to show a major
undetermined sponsor that their money is going to
be able to benefit not only the students but can
help them promote their products or services could
be the deciding factor that will may help FIRST
swing another regional or convince a major
corporation to start a bunch of new teams.

Using the cards for admission may very well be
impractical. If we assume that FIRST-SME knew
this from the start the next most obvious
assumption is that the team party entry statement
is a bluff designed to get more people to register.
Though I wouldn’t necessarily promote this
method of gather information if this were the case,
it hardly seems more than a slight transgresion
were that the case. After all how else are you going
to preserve the statistical integrity of your data if
only the most hard core FIRST junkies run out and
register for this “worthless card”. The team party
entry requirement causes the majority of students
that would otherwise not register for a card to get
one anyways because the effort to register is much
less than the frustration of being delayed at the
team party just because you didn’t spend 5
minutes to fill out a short little form.

Hope I provided a little bit of insight. Personally I
would much rather believe that FIRST-SME truly
has the best intentions and wouldn’t purposely
deceive the people that they seek to help.

You can blame any spelling/grammar mistakes on
my cat, Loki (appropriately named after the Norse
god of Discord and Mischief). “Stop stepping on my
laptop, bad kitty. … No, the mouse cord is not the
greatest thing since catnip. … Yeah, the cursor is
fun to chase across the screen. … Fine, just lay on
the keyboard if it will make you happy. I’ll be back in
2 minutes to kick you off. … Yes I know that my
laptop is on your spot on the table. … No matter
how hard you stare at me I’m not going to move
this thing just because you want to sit there.”

Posted by nick237 at 03/07/2001 12:22 AM EST

Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.

In Reply to: Re: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by Clinton Hamilton on 03/06/2001 9:59 PM EST:

Clinton. I believe that you believe all that you have said but to willingly give a DNA sample and other demographic information without knowing what the end resulting use would be is giving up your right to privicy.
Would you alow the government to plant a tracking and listening devise in a body cavity so that they would know what and where your going. This would be concidered going to far but thats all part of the invasion of ones rights to privicy.
If FIRST and SME want this information then let them get it honestly, the ploy of rewards should not be part of this information gathering.
We are not assured that this information will be kept private, it could be sold or given to any organization and its use could be some what questionable. I Emailed SME and told them that I was not happy giving personal information, I also explained that their knowing my race, color, sex and exact date of birth was not needed to go to a non alcohol party at Epcot.
Clinton, would you by any chance be interested in buying a bridge in Brooklyn, or some prime swamp land in Florida… :slight_smile: I promiss you its a great deal, and
I as a true member of FIRST would never lie.
nick237

: Let’s theoretically assume for a moment that 2
: things that have been mentioned are true (mainly
: because I don’t want to draw conjectures that I
: can’t support) and look at this rationally :

: Assumption 1) Checking them is completely
: impractical (I won’t debate this as it’s more a issue
: of logistics than anything else. After all they did ask
: to see the armbands at Nats last year)

: Assumption 2) The real reason that FIRST wants
: you to have the cards is because they want to
: collect demographics on the people involved.

: If you assume that the two above statements are
: true you still end up with a weak argument for not
: getting the cards.

: Maybe I’m just too open with personal information
: for my own good. But personally I don’t have any
: problem giving away my personal information to
: responsible organizations like FIRST and SME. If
: demographics of FIRST team members can help
: FIRST grow I’m all for it. Heck they can come by my
: house and take a DNA sample if they want to study
: the genetic traits of a FIRST junkies. We live in an
: information age. Power is in the information that
: you control. Being able to show a major
: undetermined sponsor that their money is going to
: be able to benefit not only the students but can
: help them promote their products or services could
: be the deciding factor that will may help FIRST
: swing another regional or convince a major
: corporation to start a bunch of new teams.

: Using the cards for admission may very well be
: impractical. If we assume that FIRST-SME knew
: this from the start the next most obvious
: assumption is that the team party entry statement
: is a bluff designed to get more people to register.
: Though I wouldn’t necessarily promote this
: method of gather information if this were the case,
: it hardly seems more than a slight transgresion
: were that the case. After all how else are you going
: to preserve the statistical integrity of your data if
: only the most hard core FIRST junkies run out and
: register for this “worthless card”. The team party
: entry requirement causes the majority of students
: that would otherwise not register for a card to get
: one anyways because the effort to register is much
: less than the frustration of being delayed at the
: team party just because you didn’t spend 5
: minutes to fill out a short little form.

: Hope I provided a little bit of insight. Personally I
: would much rather believe that FIRST-SME truly
: has the best intentions and wouldn’t purposely
: deceive the people that they seek to help.

: You can blame any spelling/grammar mistakes on
: my cat, Loki (appropriately named after the Norse
: god of Discord and Mischief). “Stop stepping on my
: laptop, bad kitty. … No, the mouse cord is not the
: greatest thing since catnip. … Yeah, the cursor is
: fun to chase across the screen. … Fine, just lay on
: the keyboard if it will make you happy. I’ll be back in
: 2 minutes to kick you off. … Yes I know that my
: laptop is on your spot on the table. … No matter
: how hard you stare at me I’m not going to move
: this thing just because you want to sit there.”

Posted by Kevin Sevcik at 03/07/2001 12:41 AM EST

Other on team #57, Leopards, from BT Washington and the High School for Engineering Professions and Exxon, Kellog Brown & Root, Powell Electrical.

In Reply to: Re: are you sure…
Posted by nick237 on 03/07/2001 12:22 AM EST:

But I’m with Mr. Hamilton. I don’t really wanna get into a long drawn out discussion of privacy rights or anything, but I don’t think this is really an invasion of privacy. First off, the whole implanting a transmitter thing is blowing it all way out of proportion.

Second, and most importantly, all this info is stuff that only a moderately determined person could find out about you in less than a day. If you’re worried about this going into government files, they’re way ahead of you. You probably gave out more information than this when you took your SATs. Atleast SME isn’t going to hand out your address to every college in the nation.

That’s the only real problem I might have with this whole thing, is if SME hands this info out to lots of mailing lists. But since I didn’t ask for additional info about anything, I’m not worried about that.

Posted by Matt Ryan at 03/07/2001 8:39 AM EST

Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and Gillette.

In Reply to: Not to post off topic or anything…
Posted by Kevin Sevcik on 03/07/2001 12:41 AM EST:

What Nick (would say “Mr.”, but I don’t know your last name) means is that FIRST and SME are violating your rights to privacy.

The party at EPCOT is open to everyone who took part in the FIRST Competition. Now you need cards that you have to register online for. What if someone doesn’t have internet access? They can’t get in.

If they want our personal information, they should keep it secret–Nick is right, there is no guarantee that our personal information will be kept private. We need a privacy statement in there.

I just can’t see a few people holding off a frenzied (and hungry) crowd of 30,000 people.

Posted by Kevin Sevcik at 03/07/2001 10:03 AM EST

Other on team #57, Leopards, from BT Washington and the High School for Engineering Professions and Exxon, Kellog Brown & Root, Powell Electrical.

In Reply to: Re: Not to post off topic or anything…
Posted by Matt Ryan on 03/07/2001 8:39 AM EST:

But there IS a privacy staement. Right down there at the bottom of the registration page. And if a team member doesn’t have internet access, then surely someone else on the team can help them out.
And as for holding off a crowd of hungry FIRSTies, FIRST have got Disney security backing them, plus at natural choke point at the Epcot entrances. Why, I could hold that spot for weeks with a couple of Marines and some Seige Tanks… Err whoops, wrong game.
But believe me, if FIRST wants to, they can easily keep the non-badged out of EPCOT.

Posted by Steve Pierce at 03/07/2001 3:48 PM EST

Student on team #288, Robodawgs, from Grandville High School and X-Rite/Delphi.

In Reply to: But, But…
Posted by Kevin Sevcik on 03/07/2001 10:03 AM EST:

It is my understanding that you will also be able to register at the regional competitions…
my .02
steve

Posted by mike oleary at 03/08/2001 4:28 PM EST

Student on team #419, rambots, from bc high and sponsors are overrated…go pocket-change robots!!!.

In Reply to: Re: But, But…
Posted by Steve Pierce on 03/07/2001 3:48 PM EST:

people always offer a penny for youre thoughts, then you put in youre 2 cents worth…i think someones proffitting off that whole thinging business…

: It is my understanding that you will also be able to register at the regional competitions…
: my .02
: steve

Posted by Stephen Riley at 03/07/2001 12:47 AM EST

Engineer on team #419, RAMBOTS, from Wentworth Institute of Technology and Umass/BCHigh and Mathsoft, Solidworks, and NASA.

In Reply to: Re: are you sure…
Posted by nick237 on 03/07/2001 12:22 AM EST:

if you’re really interested in some real estate why not go abroad? i got a great deal on some acres behind the wall of china, on the good side :slight_smile: (just watched Caddyshack for the umpteenth time this week)

Steve

Posted by Anton Abaya at 03/06/2001 11:15 PM EST

Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and WHO NEEDS SPONSORS WHEN YOU HAVE DETERMINATION!.

In Reply to: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by nick237 on 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST:

yeah, i bet that’s all they wanna do. make a big big database of students and people involved with first.

-anton

ps. other than saying “its required for the party”…

Posted by Kevin Sevcik at 03/07/2001 12:49 AM EST

Other on team #57, Leopards, from BT Washington and the High School for Engineering Professions and Exxon, Kellog Brown & Root, Powell Electrical.

In Reply to: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by nick237 on 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST:

Like I mentioned on an earlier post, my mom’s a regional coordinator, so she knows her stuff. And she says that the badges are going to be required at Nationals. Arguments about the impracticality and quotes in bad mexican accents to the contrary, it would appear that FIRST really is going to require these things.

Personally, I don’t really see how it’s all that impractical in the first place. Everyone has to go through gates to get into EPCOT anyways, so they just have to post some people there to check for badges. I suppose a few people will slip through, but personally, I’m not gonna bet on me being one of the lucky few.

So anyways, there you have it. Word from the top says that SME badges will be required at Nationals.

Posted by Tim Gates at 03/08/2001 12:52 AM EST

Engineer on team #288, RoboDawgs, from Grandville High School and X-Rite/Delphi.

In Reply to: SME cards ??? what are they for…?
Posted by nick237 on 03/06/2001 8:25 PM EST:

SME offered to help FIRST. The cards were Dean Kaman’s idea. The purpose is to track the progress of participants in the FIRST program. One of the new sponsers for this years event signed on as result of the data that was collected last year. However, last years data was incomplete because everyone did not register even after being asked to do so by FIRST. This year it was thought to add some encouragement to registering. You wouldn’t think it would be so difficult to do something so simple. There is no underlying scheme to surrender your personal data to space aliens.