Forgive our rookieness, as we are clueless.
Rule r13
The term “spare parts” and not being counted as part of budget. I consider this to mean part harvesting off whatever junk equipment. Since we have a no money to buy things then “spare parts” will be the bulk of our bot.
Since we have no Pros (mentors & engineers) to help we have no idea how much of the parts work so I foresee us using the K.I.S.S. approach and use the items we know how to work with, scavenge everything else.
Are we allowed use wood? Not just for bumpers, but framing, throwing arms, etc.?
Can we use “deer net” as a defense, as it is nearly invisible?
Can we not use any or all of the logic boards and still be able to drive around?
Our school promised us a laptop by 1/15 so we could load all of the software we were given. [insert eyeroll here]
Shoo, what is that smell? Oh it’s that darn desperation blowing around again. Will keep you posted if it reaches a Category 5.
Spare parts are identical parts as used on your robot so that a failed part can be replaced. To help you understand, the 2011 definition is this…
A SPARE PART used as a direct replacement for a failed or defective ROBOT part (either KOP item or non-KOP item) that has already been included in the cost accounting is covered by the accounting for the original part
While that definition is not in the robot rules this year it can give you an idea of what is meant by the 2012 rule.
Nope, not an accurate assessment. Spare parts are parts identical to ones that are on the robot that are not used on the robot.
Are we allowed use wood? Not just for bumpers, but framing, throwing arms, etc.?
No rules prohibit the use of wood.
Can we use “deer net” as a defense, as it is nearly invisible?
I’m hesitant to say yes or no. If you do use it, make darn certain that anybody who might get tangled in it has to work to do that.
Can we not use any or all of the logic boards and still be able to drive around?
Not sure I understand what you mean by this. Do you mean the modules that go in the cRIO?
Our school promised us a laptop by 1/15 so we could load all of the software we were given. [insert eyeroll here]
Psst: Use the Classmate for some of the lighter programming software.
So we will have to find a retail value for every part we harvest?
And yes I meant the Crio and modules. I’m sure they are amazing in the right hands, but we may not have time to figure them out.
I have an idea. FIRST needs to include all documentation/directions of parts based on a sliding scale based on the noobness of the team.
Wow… rookie teams are into the 4,000 numbers this year. Very cool. And, if you are reading and posting on CD early in the build, I can assure you that you are already amonst some of the less clueless rookies out there. Finding and using CD is a big step forward.
Wood? To see some photos of the way it has been used, go to http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/search/photos and type “wood” or “plywood” into the keywords term. My favorite is http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35536, but I’m biased.
I’m also unclear on what you mean by using “deer net” as a defense… if you mean using it as a material to prevent objects from intruding upon your robot’s inner mechanisms, I’d suggest you consider coroplast (or tenplast), a corrugated plastic available in 4’x8’ sheets as an alternative. 1/16" polycarbonate also works well. Even 1/8" doorskin plywood will work fine… but you would have to be careful with netting to ensure it doesn’t entangle other robots.
Jason
Yep.
And yes I meant the Crio and modules. I’m sure they are amazing in the right hands, but we may not have time to figure them out.
I have an idea. FIRST needs to include all documentation/directions of parts based on a sliding scale based on the noobness of the team.
They do. Have you gone to http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/2012-kit-of-parts-control-system yet? If not, go now. If someone has the presentations on building the Kitbot, could they post those here?
For the modules and cRIO: Yes, you do have to use the cRIO. However, only two of the three modules need to be used. Bear with me because I don’t know the numbers, so I’ll describe based on the ports and placement in the cRIO:
Port 1: Required. The Analog module (9201?) goes in this one and gets power from the PDB (20A circuit).
Port 2: Required. The 37-pin connector goes from this module to the Digital Sidecar (which gets powered by another 20A circuit from the PDB).
Port 3: Not required. This is the module used for pneumatics; it has a small array of green LEDs.
Port 4: This one came empty, with a cap over its pins. Don’t worry about filling it.
Ask questions on stuff you don’t understand; we’ll be glad to help you.
“I’m also unclear on what you mean by using “deer net” as a defense… if you mean using it as a material to prevent objects from intruding upon your robot’s inner mechanisms, I’d suggest you consider coroplast (or tenplast), a corrugated plastic available in 4’x8’ sheets as an alternative. 1/16” polycarbonate also works well. Even 1/8" doorskin plywood will work fine… but you would have to be careful with netting to ensure it doesn’t entangle other robots."
Deer net is used to keep deer out of your garden. It is very thin, and would not block vision. Think over sized flyswatter to block shots. Would it be our fault if a bot stuck its arm in our flyswatter? I do not intend for it to be long or droopy, just tight enough to block shots.
If they have a launcher, then by all means no one’s stopping you from trying, however remember the height rules. If they do use an arm, then I suggest putting that thing away, since it’ll most likely be your fault if something happens.
Yes, you should estimate a reasonable market value for the parts you harvest. Be careful to ensure that the parts you harvest are competition legal. For instance, don’t harvest motors or pneumatics… unless they are the specific items allowed by the rules.
Don’t worry about exceeding the cost guidelines. Worry about size rules, bumper rules, and especially about the weight limit, but very, very rarely is the budget limit a factor even for very well financed teams. Do, however, ensure that you have some reasonable estimate of the dollar value of your machine put together in a spreadsheet to show to the inspectors at your competition.
FIRST actually has some excellent documentation… although sometimes knowing what you are looking for and where to look for it can be a bit of an issue. As far as the control system goes, http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2012_Assets/Getting%20Started%20with%20the%202012%20FRC%20Control%20System_2.pdf Might be a good starting point. Yep… a lot of reading… but when the new control system came out, I passed the job of “figuring it out” on to a few students and let them piece it together. It can be done without adult assistance.
You probably already know if you have any FRC teams in your neighbourhood, but if you don’t, check out http://www.usfirst.org/whatsgoingon and see if you’ve got any experienced teams nearby. With 26 teams in the state, you might just find one who can help you out.
As for the deer net, my apologies… I was pretty sure about what “deer net” was, it just was the type of defense that you had in mind that I was curious about. Shot blocking may be difficult given the size limitations on your robot (see rule R02 at http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/viewItem/57) but if you could demonstrate that all of the netting would remain within this size envelope at all times, and that it didn’t pose an unnesecary entanglement risk to other robots then it would likely be legal. I say “likely” as if the tech inspector at your event has a different interpretation of “entanglement risk” than you do, then it would not be legal. FRC inspectors are very fair and reasonable, but I cannot pre-judge a design on behalf of your local inspector.
Jason
P.S. Yes, it could be deemed to be your fault if your use of a mesh material caused another robot to become entangled with your robot. FRC involves physical interaction, so you can reasonably expect your “fly swatter” to contact another robot’s arm or appendage, particularly if you reach outside of your frame perimeter, and should design to avoid unnecessary entanglement risks.
Wait!
Can you please quote the rule where you found this, over the years I have seen several robots made with wood or entirely out of wood, so unless the rules changed this year(which I am sure I would have heard about…) you can use wood.
team 2471 had an almost completely wooden robot in '09
( just checked the manual and see nothing prohibiting it)
I think he means that none of the rules prohibit it…
I said no rules prohibit the use of wood. If you consult a thesaurus, you will find that synonyms to prohibit include “disallow”, among other things, while antonyms include “allow”.
There are no rules that disallow wood. Therefore, it is perfectly legal.
You may need to get some sleep. While no rules prohibit going the entire build season without sleeping, after a few hours, your body will try to force you to sleep. One symptom of a lack of sleep is not reading things correctly, or not remembering their real meaning. 
Short version: I stand by what I said. And I think someone needs to recheck what I said.
my battery needs replacing D:
Any deer netting must conform to these rules…
[R02]
The Robot must satisfy the following size constraints:
A. horizontal dimensions must not exceed 28 by 38 in.,
B. the absolute height must not exceed 84 in.,
C. the height of the Robot at the start of the match must not exceed 60 in.,
**D. any appendage may not extend more than 14 in. beyond the frame perimeter, and
E. no other part of the Robot may extend beyond the vertical projection of the Frame Perimeter **(with the
exception of minor protrusions permitted per [R01-2]).
And…
[R08]
Robot parts shall not be made from hazardous materials, be unsafe, cause an unsafe condition, or interfere with
the operation of other Robots.
Examples of items that will violate this rule include (but are not limited to):
A. Shields, curtains, or any other devices or materials designed or used to obstruct
or limit the vision of any drivers and/or coaches and/or interfere with their ability to
safely control their Robot
Entanglement is always an issue and is assessed by the inspector during inspection of your robot at every event you attend.