Stage 3 Ranking Point Hack

I recall seeing some high level teams in 2016 doing the lion’s share of ten cycles and basically getting an RP on their own in week one events. I would not be shocked to see that happen this time either. This hack (forcing the opposing alliance to feed balls back onto the field or get racks of penalties) seems to be a real thing

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We haven’t gotten too far on calculated cycles, but 49 balls in the presence of defense with time to climb seems quite tricky.

By the end of the 2016 season, there were teams getting close to an RP by their own, but not week 1. According to the 4536 scouting database (the precursor to the Skykes scouting database), in week 1 the team with the highest teleop boulders high was 2502 at 4.23. The highest all season was Team 230 on Carver at 7.83.

Note however that the 2 point goal is significantly larger and the balls smaller then 2016, so shot percentage should be higher.

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So 3-4 cycles per team in 125-130 seconds is tricky? I haven’t been around for the other shooting games, but that seems reasonable to me.

anything “per team” is tricky. You will have plenty of Qual matches where at least 1 team can’t cycle at all (design choice, damage, defense, etc…) meaning it’s now 5 cycles for each of the remaining 2 teams. And assume so level of defense on everyone for having to full court travel to get cells.

It is tricky, it will become more common in later weeks but it’s still tricky.


I’d be interested in anyone’s input in what a not amazing, but definitely better than average complete cycle time would be. (Load, cross field, shoot, cross field)

There were only 4 teams in week 1 2016 that captured the tower more than twice:
1923 (3)
25 (3)
3683 (3)
4001 (3)

and 4001 and 3683 were with each other in a match, so that’s kind of like 2.5 for each of them.

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That cycle amount is close to the amount needed for 4 rotors in 2017 and it is a similar distance that would be covered if the opposing alliance can keep out of the capacity issues so I personally would expect a slight increase from that 2017 number in the cases in which capacity is hit.

6.6% of teams per event averaged 3 successful high goal cycles in stronghold. 2.9% averaged 4.


And only 4001 shot high, the other three were low.


Yeah, between this year being around 10 cycles with no misses and the additional control panel challenge, I think we’re going to see even less shield generators energized than towers captured in 2016. Might even approach the difficulty of the kpa rp in 2017.


How did 2122 do in Northern Arizona? I recall them pounding low goals

I would agree for week one and maybe week two competitions… But because there is no stop build, you’ll very likely start to see a ‘meta’ develop. By week four competitions, I would expect to see the amount of stage three completions shoot up.

Arizona North was week 2. 2122 got the capture RP 5 times and averaged 6.56 boulders in the low goal a match.

Wasn’t it 8 cycles needed?

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Our team realized the rule this as well, but a mentor brought up that collecting balls on the opposing side of the field is going to be especially tricky, because the robot is going to be ~1-2s behind the driver’s input.

Another turn-off was the TECH FOUL associated with the opposing loading zone, which (assuming your robot focuses on the fast cycle time, low scoring low robot) is effectively 3 cycles down the drain if the opponent is able to brush you while in that zone. This is further compounded by the ~1.5s delay…


You should not have a lag of 1-2 seconds…


I’m calling it right now.

No single team will get 10 cycles that count for the actual generator RP, even if they have the help of another team to spin the wheel and locate the wheel.

This will be 2020’s Lochness Monster. A few will claim to have done it in practice, but it will NEVER happen all season.

So what has to happen, even with help on the wheel:

  1. Score 9 balls and make sure you finish right before, or during teleop (ok, that one is reasonable)

  2. Proceed to score 20 more balls (4 perfect cycles), by yourself.

  3. Wait (or collect balls in parallel) for your helper to spin the wheel and the light to recognize it.

  4. Proceed to score 20 more balls (4 more perfect cycles)

  5. Have your helper locate the color wheel.

Now, I am not saying it won’t happen with three robots working together (I reserve the right to say it later in the build once we start doing testing), but no way one robot will score 49 balls, via 10 cycles, by themselves. No way this is happening all season. It has never happened in a multiple object shooting year with storage limit. Never.

This will be way more rare than the 2017 Fuel RP. Teams could do that one themselves and it was still rare before champs.

Lochness. Monster.


In week 1? Yes, it was later changed to 10 by the point any team was actually doing this. It’s already been shown his memory wasn’t accurate with respect to week 1 performances. This doesn’t change with 8 vs 10. Given this year requires ten cycles, it makes more sense to look at that number for the current context

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May be good to look into that 1-2s lag before comps, thats definitely not normal…