After watching quite a few District Champs events, I realized how much different the game can be when lots of good teams get pitted together!
I’ve created this thread for my fellow FIRSTers to list and discuss unexpected happenings at their or other District Champs, as well as maybe get some insights on them!
Hopefully the takeaway will be that we all learn how to take on unexpected challenges and better improve ourselves!
(Ex: A strong alliance losing in quarters, or an unexpected happening during quals, or a time that a team won due to a very narrow difference, or something unexpected happening in the last few seconds of an important match.)
Technically, this happened at District events, not District Champs, but at all Oregon events this year, the 2nd and 3rd seeded alliances lost in the quarterfinals. It was definitely interesting, and I don’t really know why it happened like that, but every time, the 6th and 7th were triumphant in their first series.
I know that at our first event, we (the sixth alliance) beat the third alliance in two straight matches, and during the first match, an opposing robot got stuck on balls. I don’t think that any robots disconnected/had weird problems in the second match, though.
At our second event, we (the second alliance) had a rope get stuck on the davit during the first match and a robot not move during the second match. The seventh alliance also played incredibly well and did a fantastic job.
I’m not sure about the other matches, but for the most part, I think that having three solid robots that could work together well was the key for the lower-seeded alliances.
I think the 7th and 5th seed going against each other in the finals is also very rare, the only matchup that could kill more red alliances would be 7v8
At MSC, I don’t know how many people could see this.
In the Finals on Dow Division, somehow the rope facing the driver station got stuck against the Airship base on or near the gear lift track. The Pilot knew he couldn’t reach his hand out of the port to touch the deployed rope. So he took the lift, stuck it out of the port, and knocked the rope loose. Turns out it didn’t matter, because the Robot didn’t have time to climb anyway, and they lost by more than 50 points. But kudos to the Pilot for some creative thinking on the fly.
I was that pilot in the match. The rope got stuck on the peg and was below the deck. The peg was lose, so I thought “I can’t touch the rope, but I can touch the peg”, so I hit the rope lose. A ref came up to me after the match to say congrats and that that move is completly legal.
We went from rank 28 with 0.58 average rank points at our previous event (week 4) to rank 2 with 2.0 average rank points at NC DCMP. (250% more rank points) Even we didn’t expect that. Fuel really is threshold based…
We were ranked 52nd (was previously last place) and lost our first 8 matches. We ended up getting picked second by the 4th seed alliance (thanks 1885 and 2363) and getting to finals.
Very glad to hear you guys are as quick on your feet week 7 as you were week 6! We were watching MSC back home in Indiana cheering on our alliance partners from St Joe. Very glad to see you guys heading to Champs.
I may be a bit bias, but 5460 and others; 503, 2337, 1684, felt that that it was strange that they (5460) were left not picked and instead waited as back up. I personally like to think that Ford Field or even the MSC could have turned out different if they would have been picked and would like to see some feed back from others.
The 2337-107-5561 alliance on MSC-DTE utilized some very interesting strategies.
After losing their first match in the playoffs, they switched to a 2+fuel+D strategy. They literally would play defense the whole match after placing 2 gears, since 2337 could out-shoot anyone. They won their entire division without spinning up their third rotor in any of their playoff wins.
Then they got to MInstein, or Dowstein, whichever you prefer, and faced off against the powerhouse alliance of 33-2834-469. In their first match, 2337’s alliance was unable to stop 33’s alliance from getting four rotors. In the second match, they tried a different strategy. After autonomous, 107 and 5561 literally parked in front of two of the opposing alliance’s pegs. 33’s alliance was not expecting this and instead of cycling to their one peg (maybe it was slightly broken?), they spent a good portion of the match trying to dislodge 107 and 5561. As a result, 33’s alliance was held to just two rotors for the match. Meanwhile, 2337 was out-shooting 33 in their 1-on-1 shooting battle, getting up to the high 50s in kPa pressure whereas 33 couldn’t get past the 40 kPa mark.
I had never seen Steamworks played like this before. The crazy thing is that this strategy would have actually given 2337 and company a win, if their alliance hadn’t missed a climb.
I totally adored this strategy, even if their alliance beat my team. What I found particularly interesting, was in the DTE Elims they found this strategy that would reliably shutdown an alliance without significant fuel capabilities.
They got 30+ kPa in auto, plus their 2 rotors. So the other two robots got right to defense, and 2337 got to defense after they touched off their 40kPa (sometimes getting to 50 just to be sure). Having so much defense could shut down 4 rotors on basically any alliance. So if the other alliance didn’t have a hopper-popping auto, their ~40-50kPa would make up for the 3rd rotor and even a potential two-rotor auto the other alliance could get. (It’s worth noting that against 33/2834/469 in that match, they dropped a gear at the very end that would have gotten the 3 rotors)
What this means, is that if a fuel-capable alliance like 2337 comes up against any not fuel-capable alliance (like in DTE playoffs), if the fuel alliance is smart they can essentially guarantee a win by doing lights out defense to stop the 4 rotors.
Quantitatively:
The fuel alliance would be able to reliably, and fairly easily get 15(mobility)+100(2 rotors w/one in auto)+150(climbs)+40-50kPa+20 bonus=325-335 pts
The nonfuel alliance, if choked from 4 rotors, could potentially get up to 15(mobility)+160(3 rotorsw/two in auto)+150(climbs)+any pressure=325+pressure
So essentially, even if the other alliance can get 2-rotor auton (was somewhat common at MSC elims), if they don’t have fuel capability, or just a simple fuel bot that will only get <10 pressure in a match, all the fuel alliance needs to get is ~50 pressure to guarantee a win. If the other alliance CAN’T do 2 rotor-auton, the difference is even worse.
Conclusion:
If your alliance doesn’t have a good fuel bot(s) at Worlds, don’t expect to beat an alliance that does.
I agree, Ford Field was crazy deep and playing it over again would result in many drastically changed ranks. 503 played amazing in playoffs but did poorly in qualifiers. Team 74(Mine) believes we would of had a decent shot at winning that field after narrowly being beaten out by 2767. So a lot of it was circumstantial. Also, the strategy of a pick on ford was higher at districts and teams that did well at districts and well at district championships, may not have put up the numbers or the kind of playing to round out an alliance in the eyes of the captain for first pick, which was mostly good shooters on ours, or for a second pick, solid climber + consistent gears. The rounding out of an alliance was especially true about how they performed in autonomous.
Ford was a very good field and the top 10-20 were separated by a few ranking points. Playing it over again would defiantly change things. Most alliances that did well on ford were alliances that had strong auto shooting
, great climbing and consistent fast gears. 3546 and 3620 were both amazing gear bots, but their alliance didn’t have a good shooter and since gears cap at 300 points in elims, a great shooters was almost required to win the field.
Yep, the strategy worked great. Though it was helped in no small part due to that the center peg had a weak spring which the gears kept falling off. As you said, it would have worked if 5561 didn’t get hung up in their climb.
That being said, it was also a one-time trick. The issue was that as it was unexpected, the three robots got clogged at the center peg. If it happened again, the alliance would have just had 33 shoot the whole match. With less congestion and a non-dead peg, 469 and 2834 could have easily got 3 and (with no defense) probably 4 rotors spinning just between them.
I don’t think 469 and 2834 could’ve got 4 rotors with a single peg, they should’ve went for 3+D on 2337 and let 33 shoot. I think 33 would’ve been out fueled by 2337 in those matches without defense.