If you fabricate parts in house, how many of your students are proficient* with a given piece of equipment?
For example, last year 1778 had about 20 students. We had a South Bend, a tabletop CNC mill, CNC router, laser cutter, bandsaws, and drill presses.
We had probably 15 kids that were proficient the bandsaw and drill press, 7 that could use the laser cutter and 3D printer, 4 that were proficient with the mill, 2 that were proficient with the router, and no one that was proficient with the lathe. The distribution wasn’t that different on my high school team, except we didn’t have a 3D printer.
Is that a common distribution? If you train more kids to use your equipment, how do you do it in a way that it is fun for them? I would think if we did specific traditional equipment classes we run the risk of boring them, and worse they might not retain the information.
Thanks!
*We’ll define proficiency as making simple parts without someone hovering over their shoulder.
We try to have by Dec 1st all 54 students certified with Bridgeports, lathes, bandsaws, drillpress, and all hand tools. In addition we usually have 3-6 students who weld and 3-5 who can run the CNC mill. Fall is a busy time. Much of the shop training is done by the returning students under supervision. This allows us to train with the intire shop at the same time. It also teaches the students to teach and supervise.
On my team we have a very simple system for training. If somebody hands you a part to make on a specific machine, make it. If you have never used that machine before, ask someone more experienced to supervise you. In this way we have more than enough people experienced in using various machines. The only machine in our shop that only a few members know how to use is the lathe, and that is just because we don’t use it that often.
Most of the parts on 20’s robots are either directly fabricated by students, or students are at the very least involved.
During the season, our fabrication mentors work with and teach the students. To make the parts from our detailed CAD drawings. We’ve been trying to formally train students, but often can’t find the student interest outside build season for all but a core group of students.
I personally know how to use most of the machines in our shop on the level that we use them at. I’ve even received a bit of welding training from our 22-year veteran FRC mentor.
Welding is usually done by that mentor, but in 2011, it was done by a well-trained student.
Very rarely do we get fabrication done out of our own facilities, but when we do (ex. Our water jet-cut plates on our shooter this year from RPI) we have students present during the process.
It’s something we pride in on Team 20.
We usually try to get all kids proficient on the bandsaw/drill press and the kids can decide what they want to learn. Also, we tend to have the CAD/CAM team run the CNC so that they can get some more experience. We usually have one or two kids who are pretty skilled machinists. This year, we had two kids who were proficient on the bridgeport, mini-mill, our small south bend lathe, and our larger grizzly lathe, and our mig welder to weld steel.
We try to get the students involved, so our rule is that mentors can’t use the mills/lathes without students there to learn from them.
In the past, we’ve had some really skilled kids who were proficient with tig welding aluminum when they joined the team!
We make pretty much everything in house, and everything done in house is done by students. We take a lot of pride in our manufacturing, simply because it has always been a strong point and have developed a bit of a reputation for build quality.
Training is simple and experience based, though we do have reading material for CYA purposes. People are considered trained when they are proficient at using the machine safely and accurately as well as able to teach another student how to use the machine. Trained students are then checked off by a mentor, again for CYA.
We have about 12 people on the manufacturing team. Going into a season we shoot for the following, though higher numbers are better
Everyone checked off on the layout tools, band saws, drills/drill presses.
4 checked off on the mill/advanced layout.
4 checked off on the lathe.
Training on the mill and lathe as well as advanced layout techniques are done through a class that the local community college offers each year for FRC students.
Quite a few students on our team take the time in the summer to explore tools that we do not have in house, such as 3D printing and CNC machining.
For us, everything is made in house by students. As a result, the students are usually proficient with everything by their second year on the team… however, that doesn’t mean we aren’t standing there watching them work! We make it a point to use all the tools with everyone, but for safety we make sure we’re always watching them work. All it takes is one careless moment…
In keeping with our “student run, student built” motto, everything for our team is machined by students.
We’ve nominally got about 30 mech kids, 12 or so of whom I would trust to cut stuff on the band saw or drill press unsupervised. The rest would need supervision, but luckily most of them don’t show up very much. Almost all of them can do layout work at least at some level.
We have a manual Grisly lathe, about 4 or 5 kids know at a basic level how to use it, and 3 or so (including myself) I would really trust to make comp bot quality parts on it unsupervised.
Our CNC mill is a HAAS TM-1, and there are only two kids (again, including myself) that can operate it alone and at an advanced level. Two more know how to code for it and can set it up and run it supervised, and two or so more have used it before, but I wouldn’t trust them to work on it without me there.
4 or so kids know how to weld, although we’re trying to do mostly riveted frames instead of welded ones lately.
Only one guy knows how to use TechShop’s waterjet, although I’ve helped him with coding and setting up a few times. Three of us know how to powdercoat there, although I do most of the powdercoating.
I’ve found the best way to train kids is to just make parts with them. Take a random kid that’s standing around, and get him to mill/turn/cut a part with you. Eventually, they’ll become competent enough that they can use the machine themselves.
Our problem is the school limits those students in the metals/machine shop to those that have taken and passed the class in regular school. If you haven’t taken any metals classes (or passed) than you can’t run the machines in there. Some parts are made by mentors as we may only have 1-4 kids a night that are allowed in there.
This is due to policy and insurance reasons at the high school and no way we can work around it.
On a 25 student team (my freshman and sophomore year), from what I recall: 22 drill press, 22 bandsaw, 5 mill, 3 lathe, 1 welding. We didn’t have a formal training program - if you showed up and were willing to work in the shop at least once, someone would teach you how to use the bandsaw and drill press. The only students who weren’t competent with them were the ones who didn’t go into the shop at all. Mill/lathe/welding were on a “by interest” basis, or a mentor saying “hey, we don’t have any students here today that know how to use this, wanna learn?”. We had a very dedicated set of students working those machines (and on the team in general), and they were nearly constantly in use.
Junior and senior year were at a different high school in our district, and our membership numbers and levels of dedication varied. ~40 student team: 30 drill press, 30 bandsaw, 2 welding, 4 mill, 2 lathe. We did have shop training that every student had to go through, and each student was told how to use each piece of machinery and had to attempt a predetermined task (i.e. measuring locations for and drilling 3 holes in a piece of scrap). So everyone knew how to use the machinery, but not everyone was proficient. The drill press and bandsaw are easy enough to pick up, so most students could use them on their own by at least the end of the season. Mill/lathe/welding were once again on a “by interest” basis, though we didn’t manufacture as many parts (that required those machines) those years and there wasn’t much interest.
We try to have pretty much everyone proficient at hand tools, drill press, chop saw, band saw, etc. I would say 10 or so use our press sheer roller combo. And 1 or 2 on the lathe, which is our only tool that takes real training to use and master.
Most of our fabricating is done by students. If we are low on people for the day, that is typically the only time adult mentors put their hands on tools.
We have a team of 80ish students, but our Robot Ops division (ones who work on the robot itself) are around 30 students. The tools we have in our shop are lathes, a mill, band saws, drill presses, welding stations, plasma cutter and a CNC mill. Since we build everything in-house, all of our R.O. students need to know our basic tools (drill press,band saw, sanders, etc). There isn’t a single part on our robot that isn’t mostly or completely student built.
You guys are talking about all these fancy tools. Back in our team our best friend is a Jigsaw, a drill, and a hammer. but on a serious note im totally jealous that our team doesn’t have some the tools you guys do. But with the limited materials we do have we do alright i mean. 12th at TRR and 24 in what you can call our rookie season this year. (last years team was all seniors and they taught us nothing)
safiq10, It is less about what tools you have but how well you use what you have. While we have well equipped shop we are regularly beaten by teams that have just hand drills as their only power tools. It is still about using the most important tool you have and that is your brain.
We usually have have 1 student who is the primary operator for each of our critical tools (CNC Mill, CNC Plasma Cutter, Lathes). This is a junior or senior that has spent 2 years as a minion/apprentice on that piece of equipment. That student is responsible for programming and running that piece of equipment when at meetings. We try to have 2 students learning and as back-ups in case the primary misses a meeting.
Additionally most of the mechanical team, about 20 students, can perform basic operations on the manual bridgeports. (i.e. drilling hole patterns and squaring tube) There are some students who are further trained to do the more complex manual milling jobs, usually 3-5 students.
All the mechanical kids learn to use the drill press, hand drills, riveting, basic sheetmetal bending, horizontal bandsaw, making chain
Generally we don’t let student do the grinding operations because of safety concerns with the die grinders. Also broaching is usually done under supervision in our shop.
If it isn’t clear from the above our students do most of the fabrication in our shop.
Virtually everything on the robot is student-built. Mentors are really not allowed to do robot work (although we are free to build prototypes early in the season).
That means students need to be proficient with the tools. The only exceptions are the table saw (only adults) and our drivetrain side plates (Made by a sponsor).
Sure, some students use screwdrivers as a chisel, or a hammer. But the mentors try to discourage that… About 2/3 of the team works on the robot, all of them are proficient on most of the tools, and by the time they are Seniors they can use all of them - except that some are still scared of that chop saw (and for good reason). The rest are non-technical, and don’t use tools generally.
Only 2 or 3 students learn how to use the lathe, mostly because we don’t use it that much. Same with soldering. We don’t have a welder.
We have a small lathe, 2 bandsaws, 3 drill presses, a sander (that sees way too much use), 2 chop saws and lots of small power tools, along with 3 sets of hand tools.
My goal in life is to get a few students each year who also understand how to care for and adjust these tools. I’m usually successful.
