Team Update #1

FIRST General Forum
#21

I kinda agree with you on this, but I don’t think you can compare the scoring and tactics of two games that have little alike.

Imagine if we could put a plate over our trailers - Every team with half a brain would have to do that or else they will lose. Defense in this game is movement…Yea sure it’s not super exciting to see 6 robots play “avoid” while every 15 seconds some robot makes a big score, but the last thing we need is to turn Lunacy into Zone Zeal where as long as you control all the goals and prevent any opponent scoring you win.

#22

So I guess the Trailer Hitch has to be designed to be easily removeable, huh?

#23

It may suck, but I think that de-scoring game pieces isn’t really the idea of the game. Besides, putting game pieces into your opponents’ trailers would be more efficient, both timewise and pointwise, than removing game pieces from your alliance’s trailers.

#24

I was hoping that FIRST was going to give the inspectors crowbars and reciprocating saws, in order to speed up the sizing of robots whose trailer hitches stick out too far.

Realistically, only if your robot is nearly 28 in wide, and has the trailer hitch on the 38 in side, will it have trouble fitting in the existing sizing boxes. Given that the materials required for the hitch are standardized, a standard weight could be deducted from robots weighed with a hitch. (I suppose that to use a standard weight like this, it would be prudent to specifically disallow modifications to the hitch design that would permit a small robot weight advantage to be gained by lightening it. On the other hand, it’s the system weight that matters anyway, so it would only be a technical violation of the rules, rather than a meaningful one.)

#25

I didn’t receive an e-mail blast about Team Update 1. Did anyone?

Rookies don’t know to look for this stuff, so remember to get the word out to your local rookie teams about the changes this update implements.

#26

as a programmer Im wondering how Auto mode is going to work this year . . if robots cant place balls in bins? very confuseing

#27

Robots can still put balls in, as I am reading the rules, but you just have to get more creative as far as how to do it…

#28

I’ve thought this one through & I think this is the first true competition where offense is the best strategy and pretty much the only strategy. (The only other one I can think of was 2001 & there is no point to playing defense on the only alliance on the field, yours.) I know some defense can be played & people will get creative but, I like when people can’t rely on un-doing what someone has worked to do. I won’t say that that defense isn’t a viable strategy for FIRST but don’t be afraid to break out from what you know & innovate.

As for inspiration & the growth of FIRST, it will survive. I couldn’t stand 2001 because it was dry but FIRST has done pretty well since then. They can’t all be Aim High & First Frenzy.

#29

I don’t know, the whole way that FIRST does team updates . . kinda feels like a waiter brings out your food, puts it in front of you. then just as you get your forks out, hurries to change your order because the chef wanted to make soup not steak . . kinda unprofessional. In this regard is where I really have to say BEST manages better than FIRST.

but ohh well. on to how to place balls while being at least 10 inches away from where they need to be.

Edit: to elaborate on BEST’s team updates method. they have a Q&A much like FIRST where rules are clarified. Past that there are no updates to the official rules or additional rules. Once the game is out that is the game that will be played. If BEST had intended for teams not to steal they would ( and have in past games) simply said teams cannot remove game items from other teams scoring areas.

#30

For now, it looks like the “fan suck down” idea is still legal, if we can make it work. Given that we have these two extra CIM motors that won’t be needed for the drive train, I think it is still worth investigating.

#31

Sorry 233, http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

“3) Don’t spend time attempting to develop a vacuum car system like Jim Hall’s sucker Chaparral car. Even a slight suction over the base of the robot will damage the field surface and you don’t want to do that (See the 2009 FIRST Robotics Competition Manual section 7 rules G-29 & G-30)”

We were thinking the same thing, to bad we can’t do it.

#32

Thank’s very much for clueing me in. We can now apply full effort to other things, like picking up and shooting balls, rather than looking for the ideal leaf blower/shop vac/ whatever, and coming up with a configuration for the “skirt” for the base of the robot. It seemed like a fun, and worthwhile concept to pursue for this game. Oh well.

#33

I’m surprised nobody seems upset about the descoring issue. I’ve wasted 2 unpaid days heading in that direction… Where do I send the bill? I don’t see how this game is affected much by the robots. The human players will have the trailers half full by the end of autonomous. So now we’re trying to fight over a few supercells and a few moonrocks the whole match? not to mention if we want a decent drive system, we’re left with barely any room (within the bumper perimiter) to pick up balls. It seems like they want a tie every match regardless of effort. Sorry but I’m really dissapointed with this one…

#34

Have you built a trailer and tried to get orbit balls in? It’s hard. Really freakin’ hard. I’m not much of a basketball player, but I couldn’t get them in when the goal was 10 feet away, yet alone moving all over the place! Up until this point I think we’ve really really over-estimated the human players ability to score. You’ve got to hit an area marginally larger than the ball itself. Sure, if a robot sits still in autonomous, there most of the 20 will make it in. If a robot dies near the other alliances Human Player, most of the 20 will go in. Barring that, the humans will be really really ineffective.

#35

You truely believe that your human player will be able to get 10 shots off in 15 seconds and get them all in over a 6 1/2 foot tall barrier and on a moving target? Consistantly?

I think you seriously have overestimated your human players capabilities … unless his name is Larry Bird.

#36

I’ve explored the descoring topic a bit on my own, and I haven’t really found a really good way even before this prohibition…though remember, marketing major.

No intelligent team will go through an event without at least an attempt at a dumb run-the-heck-away-from-here routine. I don’t know whether we’ll see much robot-on-robot scoring in autonomous, but I could picture a fun round of jockeying for position–imagine a couple of robots double-teaming an opponent back into the corner, near-ideal conditions to let the human players pick a few off. (Or the same idea could bolster a partner’s attempt to score a few balls autonomously.)

I fully expect things to remain quite interesting.

#37

Um. No. They specifically ruled out Chapparell style sucking devices.

#38

Um, no, they didn’t. Jim, who may be on the GDC but is not the rulebook, stated that they are illegal because they damage the floor. I honestly don’t see where he’s coming from-perhaps skirts too low might scratch the floor, or something. But if you don’t damage the floor, there is nothing illegal about those systems.

#39

I think you mean Bill.

Incidentally, the GDC is the Supreme Court of FRC right now. (They are also the Legislature and the executive branch.) So if one of them says something about a rule, you might want to listen up. If Bill posts something, I’m willing to bet that it’s also the opinion of the rest of the GDC.

#40

Man, the fact that you have to stay within the vertical projection of the bumpers really inhibits the ability to create an effective dumper… you have to get the balls going about 4 inches from the dumping mechanism in order for them to actually land in the trailer. I actually had a really long discussion with a mentor about using a rotating hatch, similar to the mail deposits where you pull down on the handle insert the letter and gravity causes the letter to fall into the box when closed again, but in reverse. The idea was that when retracted, contact would indeed stay in the bumper zone, but it would extend beyond that for just a second to unload balls, and now that idea’s moot. </rant>.