Team Update 12!!!

https://firstfrc.blob.core.windows.net/frc2018/Manual/TeamUpdates/TeamUpdate12.pdf

Drivers are getting buttons, not badges.

Also compressed air on the robot really truly only comes from one compressor. No off-board + on-board compressor. Which is how I’d always read it, but I guess it needed further clarification?

One stupid question just for my own clarity: they’re still the same thing, just with a different name, right?

It will be up to the LRI at your event.

But probably yes.

Literally unplayable. Im sorry but this is my breaking point. Badges were the one thing I still had hope for, and FIRST killed it.

It looks like the compressor rule update was driven by this Q&A:
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/322

I have to admit, I’m still a little confused…

Team Update 1.2×10^194885? Wow, I never thought we’d come so far.

Agreed… if battery power is your concern, swapping to a “legal” offboard compressor isn’t going to help since it’s still the battery powering it. Heck, AFAIK the best strategy in regards to such is to pre-fill using the compressor on one one battery, then swap batteries before you go on the field, no second compressor required.

We’ve always done this and just swapped the batteries in the last 15 seconds of the ongoing match.

That’s the best from the battery life standpoint. The lighter weight compressors have a pretty duty cycle limit, though. One of the Viairs is spec’d at 1 min on 9 min off. I could see someone with way too much storage wanting to do what the blue box outlaws to try to get past that limitation.

As I noted, I’ve always understood the original “one and only one” phrasing to imply that all the compressed air in your bot and has to be sourced from a single compressor. But maybe that wasn’t obvious? Or maybe the GDC is second guessing itself on how obvious things are.

That too, but the original question mentioned battery life. Also, those tiny compresors don’t have great volumetric outputs, so even when it is running, it isn’t pushing all that much. In FRC applications, they’re like car alternators; they’re optimized for topping off a storage device (air tanks or car batteries), not filling it up from nothing. Yeah, they can do it, but they’re not all that efficient compared to larger compressors (what one would use in an offboard configuration).

Common sense is an oxymoron. :rolleyes: That said, it’s in the same [strike]gray area[/strike] category as other modular robot questions and debacles (like 1519’s 2008 two robot fiasco).

Badges???

Sorry I couldn’t resist.

Disclaimer: I am not the manual nor the GDC.

As far as I’m reading it, the answer to that Q&A seems ambiguous because the question is. What does ‘testing purposes’ mean? If you’re just trying stuff out with spare mechanisms that aren’t part of the ROBOT, then it’s fine. If ‘testing purposes’ means using your bot on the practice field (or pit), then no, it’s not okay.

Based on my own intuition, I’d say the language ‘Throughout an event’ was added to make it clear the one compressor rule applies to air used in the pit and on the practice field. ‘one and only one’ was likely changed to ‘its one’ to allow you to swap compressors should yours fail (while it’s never been enforced in that situation, I believe that language has been in the manual for years, which is quite the oversight).

I read the compressor language change as allowing you to replace your compressor if the original “one and only one” compressor died or otherwise needed to be replaced. I would never have considered that this needed to be clarified, but I’m sure someone could have argued that “one and only one” really means that you couldn’t ever replace your compressor.

Heat is one reason to pre-charge with a 2nd compressor.
Heavier 2nd compressor with better CFM rating is another.

Some people have tried to interpret “one and only one” as “one at a time”.

I have been taught that any additional compressors must be in a COTS like state (not hooked up to anything). Basically a spare.

At one competition, someone was able to get a 2nd compressor for the purpose of filling air tires, as that air is not part of the “pneumatic system”, and thus not subject to the “one and only one” rule. I don’t think this year’s rules solved that problem.