Team Update 18 Posted

We had a few C8 yellow cards at SFR for pushing teams to break G9. Will that go away too?

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Definitely agree this is an improvement - defining these exceptions to G9 and G10 also eliminates the confusion about G8. Because if you push a robot across the line, you are not forcing a foul, so G8 does not apply, whether there was intent or not.

The analogous situation with the HAB is unchanged.

The other change is with regards to Q413
You may leave the PDP input wire cover off, but may not use those threaded holes to secure a different cover.

Wow it actually worked.

We’ve done like 3 mentor built threads in the last month. I guess now that the bag day thing is settled, we can turn them into Minnesota/California/New York districts threads?

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Seems like a great update, makes it possible to play legal defense that is actually defense (preventing opponent scoring) rather than the rules tolerating the strategies to “score on defense.” At the same time, it will allow offensive teams to play a little more freely on the far cargo ship bays and far rocket side. Should make for interesting battles in weeks to come.

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Anyone have a take on what “dedicated effort” might mean? My kids are wondering how it might be called if you’re pushed across the line by an opponent and lose comms/get disabled. You wouldn’t really be capable of making a “dedicated effort”, but it seems within the spirit of the rule (which I interpret as “you shouldn’t get penalties if you break the rule because you were pushed by an opponent, and don’t take advantage of it”).

Doesn’t matter a ton, if we lose comms, what’ll be will be and there’s not much we can do regardless of how the new rules are interpreted. Just curious how others would read this.

So I, like others, am super thrilled at this change. It absolutely will make everyone’s live better at events (teams, refs, scoring robots, defensive robots).

At risk of being a negative Nancy, one thing I still find annoying is that there are different criteria for when robots are subject to these rules. For G9, the condition is bumpers partially across the opponents’ CARGO SHIP LINE, but for G10, the condition is bumpers fully across the opponents’ CARGO SHIP LINE.

I still think this would be another improvement and significantly simplify the enforcement of and adherence to these rules if the condition were the same for both. Preferrably the fully across option, since there are cases where robots violate G9 when attempting to score in the far-side cargo ship spots, and their alliance partner is on the other side playing defense. This in no way violates the spirit of the rule (no 2 bots playing defense), but nonetheless can currently result in fouls by a robot simply trying to score its game pieces.

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Hey, maybe if we complain enough about the god awful “multi cut/angle” match footage that has been getting uploaded that will get fixed too!

Also, although this makes me very happy, I’m interested to see what comes of my next competitions driver meeting when the inevitable question of what constitutes"dedicated effort". Does the count start as soon as the defender backs off and we’re no longer being “forced” outside our half of the field? Or does it start when the ref decides we are no longer trying to get back to the our half of the field?

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So does this make C8 easier or more difficult to call?

It makes it easier for the referee to decide when to call C8. It makes C8 calls less common.

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C8 is already a difficult thing to call, since “playing defense” isn’t “aimed at making your opponent violate a rule.” I think the only time it’s clearly C8 is being shoved into a rocket at endgame or you go waaaay out of your way to tag a robot during endgame in your HAB ZONE. I think this rule makes calling G9 and G10 easier, makes it clear(er) when those rules are a no-call, and drops C8 out of the question unless it’s in-yo-face obvious.

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If I try to tell the robot something and it stubbornly refuses to listen, does it count as a student?

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To be perfectly honest, this is how I read the rules before they made the change.

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You have two drivers and a drive coach at the station, it should become obvious when you’re huddled over the DS and not pushing sticks that something’s off. Then again, the refs may not be looking that way. Hmmm.

Also, if you’re really disabled, your RSL changes from blinking to solid.

It seems reasonable that the refs would notice you’ve lost comms, my question was more how they’d rule on it since it feels to me like you’d be within the spirit of the law but not necessarily the letter.

If you’ve lost comms and are checking to make sure your DS is all good, you’re “in the letter of the law” as well as far as I can tell. Hopefully nobody has to learn the hard way if the ref disagrees.

So now the robot that gets pushed across the line will not be flagged, if it makes a dedicated effort to get back.

I am imagining a referee watching the robot’s effort, deciding it is insufficiently dedicated, then waving a flag while pointing at the robot and saying, “LAME!”

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If your robot isn’t trying to rip a hole in the space-time continuum to get back are you making a dedicated effort?

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Keep in mind the rule changes are only applied “when in forced situations” so bad driving/unaware driving “unforced situations” and the like can easily draw fouls when on other than your side and the new changes would not apply

In general these fouls are on the table anytime you cross the line . Read the rules.
Most G9/G10 I saw were unforced

I don’t think these updates change much in gameplay.

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lol wut?
What about g13 and g16?
Can I now push an opposing robot into someone on the hab and get a climb?
Can I push an opposing robot into my rocket in the last 20 and get a rocket?
Doesn’t this just push our C8 abuse onto other rules?

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