Nothing new, just a reiteration of the Q&A about allowable devices during Alliance selection.
So does this mean that regionals can’t stop teams from using their iPlaid machine for alliance selection, or is it still “house rules”?
I would assume if you could hand a copy of the team update to the head ref, it would be allowed. However as always, head ref’s have the final say, so technically they can overrule it, but I doubt any would overrule a team update.
Does this mean you can take a phone onto the field for alliance selections and have a conversation with the people in the stands?
It should not have to come down to a team update. I never saw a rule against it and there should have never been any regionals not allowing it.
“There are no rules that prohibit laptops or team collaboration during the alliance selection process.
These methods are permitted, however the team is expected to make quick and expeditious
decisions in the interest of keeping the process moving.”
I believe that Phones are allowed, or at least if you said that you were collaborating with your team members - which you would be.
<T25> and <T26> would seem to disallow this
<T25> The only equipment that may be brought on to the ARENA is the OPERATOR CONSOLE, reasonable decorative items, and special clothing and/or equipment required due to a disability. Other items, particularly those intended to **provide a competitive advantage **for the TEAM, are prohibited.
<T26> Devices used solely for the purpose of planning or tracking strategy of game play are allowed inside the ALLIANCE STATION, if they meet ALL of the following conditions:
Do not connect or attach to the OPERATOR CONSOLE
Do not connect or attach to the FIELD or ARENA
Do not connect or attach to another ALLIANCE member
Do not communicate with anything or anyone outside of the ARENA.
Do no include any form of enabled wireless electronic communication (e.g. radios, walkie-talkies, cell phones, Bluetooth communications, WiFi, etc.)
Do not in any way affect the outcome of a MATCH, other than by allowing TEAM members to plan or track strategy for the purposes of communication of that strategy to other ALLIANCE members.
Emphisis mine.
I think those rules apply to matches and game play, not to alliance selection.
No one is inside the Alliance Station.
Well, at least the Magic 8 Ball is safe…
Please state where in the rules that alliance selection is not included.
ARENA - all elements of the game infrastructure that are required to play LogoMotion: the FIELD, the ALLIANCE STATIONS, the GAME PIECES, and all supporting communications, arena control, and scorekeeping equipment.
Just because you aren’t playing the game doesn’t exclude you from being on an element required to play the game.
Again, Emphisis mine.
This is my feeling, as well. At all of our competitions, our team representative has carried an iPad and/or laptop onto the field during alliance selections, devices which carry our aggregated scouting data to help expedite and streamline the selection process for our team. To my knowledge, we have had no problems with event officials refusing to allow these devices on the field.
Please state where in the rules that alliance selection is included.
By your logic… no one could bring a microphone into the arena… or rollerblades… etc etc… it does not SAY this pertains only to the TEAMS.
It might be necessary to just use common sense… and past practice…
and the update information
If all the Game rules apply to Alliance Selection, then everyone gets a Penalty for entering the Field. <G28>
At Chesapeake, the ref asked the alliance captain to put his phone away.
I don’t see the big deal. If you can’t use electronic devices, resort to old technology. We had a dry erase board and marker. Much cheaper than an iPad or phone.
Also, have a pick list made with a few different scenarios. Choose a representative that has been given a walk through of what you expect them to do, just don’t give a high school student a list of numbers.
For years now 1675 has had a small group in the stands with scouting data and a big dry erase board to relay team numbers to the person on the field.
Please state where each of the rules state that they are included anywhere, and section titles don’t do that. (there are a few exceptions/inclusions, but generally the rules are considered in force unless otherwise specified)
Correct, but since the ARENA is specifically defined there would be little issue with rollerblades and such (I haven’t seen anyone bring rollerblades to the ARENA). And anything brought into the ARENA (such as a microphone) would have to provide an ‘advantage’ to be considered against the rules.
I guess they feel that since all teams get a penalty, they’ll just overlook it 
Once you’ve decided that <T25> and <T26> aren’t restricted to match play, they disallow a heck of a lot of things we all take for granted that have been legal at just about every regional I can think of. Just to belabor the point, here’s a brief list of things that I’ll be expecting you to leave behind when you enter the ARENA, no matter when that is:
- Pick lists written on whiteboards, paper tablets, etc.
- Pens, pencils, and other writing implements for your illegal paper
- Wagons, robot carts, etc.
- Gloves for lifting robots
- Any special fixturing a team has for safely lifting a robot
- Multimeter for quickly diagnosing any robot problems
- Tools for quickly fixing any robot problems
- Laptop for fixing programs or for the on-field calibration at Champs
- Phones, cameras, etc for recording what’s being said during driver meetings
- Cameras for snapping pictures during award ceremonies
- Tools being used by teams that stay behind to help disassemble the field after the regional
I’m sure I’m missing a lot of things. If anyone else wants to chip in “special equipment” that teams typically use during awards ceremonies, drivers meetings, or pre/post matches, feel free.
On another note, exactly what was your proposed enforcement method to penalize a team for bringing a camera on field during the Saturday Awards? Revoke their award and assign it to another team on the spot?
Oh, and no pleading that it doesn’t apply to awards ceremonies for some reason. You’ve decided it applies to the ARENA period, with no limit on the timeframe. That’s possibly supportable in the text of the rules. You can’t support “just MATCHES and ALLIANCE SELECTION” anymore than we could support “just MATCHES”. Somewhat less, in fact, since we have precedent and a Q&A ruling on our side.
Is there really being a discussion about this?
Laptops, IPads, Cell Phones, use a Supercomputer if you want… Come on, as long as the picks are made in a timely manner everything is good. If you are that annoyed by this, I think you have bigger issues here.
Yes, there is really being a discussion about this. Some regional events have imposed “house rules” prohibiting the use of phones and laptops by the team representatives during alliance selection. Those rules are not supported by the Game Manual, and they are explicitly contradicted by the GDC, but they exist.