Teams that have dropped the Swerve Drive

FIRST General Forum
#40

Re closed loops on talons.

In truth - I very seriously contemplated rolling my own control loops to more effectively test the entire system virtually. The talons being closed source I can’t accuretely model their outputs while in close loop modes in a virtual environment which limited the testing I could do on software.

In the end I just treated them as black boxes and tested the functions that generate their inputs so I could skip out on modeling but it did limit what sort of systems I could easily test. I may revisit this in the offseason but that remains to be seen.

#41

I’ll jump back in because several people have asked me just what went wrong, mechanical, electrical, or programming.

The only useful reply I can give is that this is one of the disadvantages of swerve – it can be extremely difficult to diagnose exactly what went wrong, and ultimately we weren’t successful in doing so. The robot was always off by a few degrees from where it was supposed to go, and mechanical thought it was programming and programming thought it was mechanical, while I suspect it was always a combination of the two. There’s so much that can go wrong on a swerve, from slightly different coefficients of friction to slightly miscalibrated encoders and a million things in-between.

(Ironically, had we tried to do it this year rather than last, I think it would have worked out much closer to fine rather than disastrous – great big targets you can basically run into are pretty forgiving, while a spring-peg to put a gear on is rather less so. That said, less than dead-on isn’t really acceptable if you’re trying to hit “next level” FRC competitiveness.)

#42

So, I’m curious, is anyone at Detroit this year using swerve?

Our team thought about trying it several years ago, but our cadd student wouldn’t share his drawings… go figure. lol

I’d love to see it, and how they implement it if anyone was there.

Mike

#43

Many teams, but a key one to check out is 2767.

#44

Or if you can’t find 2767 because random pits, 1720. We’re like a vintage 2767 swerve from a year ago.

#45

In NE team 467 didn’t do swerve drive this year, for the first time I can recall. They ranked their highest at NEDCMP of any other year that they qualified.

I can’t speak as to why they dropped swerve, but they were certainly more competitive this year than any other year I’ve noticed.

#46

I found 32 teams that were using a swerve drive this year. Of those, 11 teams have made it to Champs:

  • 16 - Bomb Squad (Houston)
  • 272 - Cyber-Crusaders (Detroit)
  • 1323 - MadTown Robotics (Houston)
  • 1533 - Triple Strange (Houston)
  • 1720 - PhyXTGears (Detroit)
  • 2481 - Roboteers (Detroit)
  • 2767 - Stryke Force (Detroit)
  • 2910 - Jack in the Bot (Houston)
  • 3990 - Tech for Kids (Detroit)
  • 4458 - Infernobotix (Detroit)
  • 5006 - Apophis (Houston)

Am I missing any other teams which may have qualified during Week 7?

#47

Add #33 Killer Bees and #141 WOBOT, both going to Detroit. I’m sure there are a few more.

#48

4256 Cyborg Cats, i think they’re Houston.

#49

Add 2067 (Detroit) to that list. They qualified at NE DCMP.

#50

2771 (Detroit) I believe

#51

1640 (detroit)

#52

Add 323 to that list, they use a custom swerve as well. Sadly, they did not qualify for champs.

#53

If you are interesting I have been in charge of the design of swerve on 2067 for 2 years and will be giving a presentation on it on Wednesday. Also feel free to stop by our pits and check out our modules.

#54

Updated list of swerve drive teams that are going to champs:

  • 16 - Bomb Squad (Houston)
  • 33 - Killer Bees (Detroit)
  • 141 - WOBOT (Detroit)
  • 272 - Cyber-Crusaders (Detroit)
  • 1323 - MadTown Robotics (Houston)
  • 1533 - Triple Strange (Houston)
  • 1720 - PhyXTGears (Detroit)
  • 2067 - Apple Pi (Detroit)
  • 2481 - Roboteers (Detroit)
  • 2767 - Stryke Force (Detroit)
  • 2771 - Code Red Robotics the Stray Dogs (Detroit)
  • 2910 - Jack in the Bot (Houston)
  • 3990 - Tech for Kids (Detroit)
  • 4256 - Cyborg Cats (Houston)
  • 4458 - Infernobotix (Detroit)
  • 5006 - Apophis (Houston)

Quite an interesting lot!

#55

I won’t miss you presentation for sure!

Will you give out samples??? :rolleyes: :smiley: :yikes: LOL

#56

Can’t speak for 2220, but can speak for 2169. In 2014 we tried to make a swerve drive robot with purchased swerve modules. To put it nicely, the modules were not ideal. They were heavy, they ran horizontal chain (which was problematic to say the least), there weren’t any good places to mount encoders, they conducted lots of static and killed tons of encoders, etc. Using purchased modules was an issue. If you’re going to build a swerve drive, make custom modules.

However, creating custom swerve modules is rather difficult. If you want to do it in a Build Season, machining capabilities are a must. Our fatal flaw: we have zero CNC/Machining capabilities. Over the summer we attempted to make a set of swerve modules using our bandsaw and drill press, and we found it to be possible, but incredibly time consuming and difficult. Besides, unless you have lots of experience with Swerve, and have a driver who is heavily experienced in swerve drives, if you take the resources you would put into a swerve drive into your mechanisms, and put that all on a sturdy WCD, you’ll probably be better off.

#57

Here is the list of teams that I know have competed or developed a swerve drive at some point in time but have dropped or shelved the technology. I have added, in parenthesis, whether the team will be at Champs this year:

  • 11 - MORT (Detroit)
  • 67 - The HOT Team (Detroit)
  • 71 - Team Hammond 71 (Detroit)
  • 111 - Wildstang
  • 114 - Eaglestrike
  • 118 - Robonauts (Houston)
  • 148 - Robowranglers (Houston)
  • 587 - Hedgehogs
  • 696 - Circuit Breakers
  • 1625 - Winnovation (Detroit)
  • 1717 - D’Penguineers (has not competed since 2015)
  • 2220 - Blue Twilight (Detroit)
  • 2054 - Tech Vikes (Detroit)
  • 2167 - Radical Tech
  • 2169 - KING TeC (Detroit)
  • 2177 - The Robettes (Detroit)
  • 2220 - Blue Twilight (Detroit)
  • 2451 - PWNAGE (Detroit)
  • 3928 - Team Neutrino (Detroit)
  • 5817 - Uni-Rex (Houston)

Suggested changes, deletions and additions welcomed.

#58

Just a note: 111 is HOF and even though they didn’t qualify through their regionals they will still be joining us at Detroit.

#59

For the first time since 2007, MORT will not be attending a championship event. RIP