Ten Foot Pole behind the castle wall

Has anyone tried using a camera mounted on top of a tall pole for improved visibility behind the castle wall? I saw it mentioned in the Q&A and was wondering if anyone found it useful? Furthermore, if one were to use said pole with camera, where who one put it? Would it have to be in front of the starting line?

Link to Q&A thread

4009 used this at Lake Superior this past weekend.

It was attached to their driver station equipment.

4009 used this at Lake Superior this past weekend.

It was attached to their driver station equipment.

When you say attached, how so? Was it standing on the floor, attached via a pole to the operating console or was it fully supported by the Operating Console?

At Southfield FiM District a team had a display Monitor, with a 10ft PVC pipe with a camera on top. It sat on the Driver Station. The PVC pipe was solely attached to the display monitor.

So would it be legal if the pole holding the camera was standing on the ground and not on top of the shelf that is provided for the operating console?

Im not sure how they attached it but it was on the operators console it was not on the floor.

3467 used one at GSD. We found it useful for seeing the robot behind the various high defenses, particularly the drawbridge and sally port. In most situations, it wasn’t necessary, but it was quite helpful when we needed it. We made a fixture on the side of our driver console for the pole and it stayed in place for the entire match. The pole was made out of a telescoping tripod leg, which made it relatively easy to transport and adjust.

We’re using a 3rd Person view camera on our DS this weekend at Orlando.

R94 The OPERATOR CONSOLE must not exceed 60 in. long by 14 in. deep (excluding any items that are held or worn by the DRIVERS during the MATCH).

Unless you have a long pole attached to one of your drivers back, which would not only give you a bad view but be totally unsafe, the pole would have to be inside these measurements on the shelf.

We asked if our drive coach could use a pair of binoculars to see our lift mech and were told no we could not as it would give an unfair advantage to our team. So we asked about the other team with the 10 ft pole and camera. We were told that was legal since it was attached to the driver station. I guess the assumption was it was attached by a cable because I swear I saw the pole sitting on the ground inside an orange traffic cone.

So if those binoculars were mounted on a mini tripod set at the height of your drive coach, and the tripod was attached to the DS via a tether, bracket, etc., then it seems as though that would make them legal, right?

EDIT: Probably be better for one of the drive team to use the binoculars, since the drive coach cannot touch the DS.

We chose a 180 camera and shoot camera, gives us pretty good visibility. We make our driver practice with his back to the field driving just by instrument. :slight_smile:

364 here - we asked this question on the QA.

We are doing this. We are mounting a 9 foot pole to our driver station. There is a socket for the pole to be driven into the driver station and we will secure it with a pin-lock.

Here is an image: http://i.imgur.com/YOI3awp.jpg

We ran a bird’s eye camera on our driver station for a couple matches this past weekend, by fitting the base of a telescoping pole into a matching hole on our driver station and stabilizing it with a velcro strap around a permanently installed brace. (We actually designed rev.1 of the system last year, but never ended up needing it.)

Anyways, it turns out that the “Camera High Atop Of a Stick” (CHAOS) development team didn’t put enough thought into the placement of the monitor on the DS, or the camera’s field of view for that matter; the drivers reported that CHAOS wasn’t actually at all helpful in its current configuration. We’ll see whether or not they end up revising it for Troy…

We (3647) brought a pole and tripod to the San Diego regionals, didn’t realize it had to be attached to the driver station. Team 2485 had one that was supported by the driver station and not in contact with the ground that they were allowed to use. I think it offers a pretty decent strategic advantage, especially when crossing defenses from the opponents courtyard into the neutral zone and for lining up a scaling mechanism if you don’t have a spy.

We (4009) had it attached to our driver’s station and it’s legal since there is no hight limit on the driver’s station.

The trick there is that your driver station is only allowed to be 14" deep (front to back), so now the pole is using up some of that valuable depth. If you try to stabilize the bottom of the pole by driving it into a bucket full of sand, for example, that takes up even more of the allowed depth; depending on how you mount your camera to the top, that may also use up more of the depth. If you aren’t careful, you might eat up so much depth by doing this that you can’t actually reach the velcro strip of the driver station shelf any more, and then your DS is vulnerable to being knocked off the shelf and onto the floor.

That was actually 862’s original design for the CHAOS system, but it caused so many problems that we quickly switched to a shelf-mount strategy and never looked back!

4009 had their driver station on a wooden board that held their DS, pole with camera and a large screen all in one setup. Pretty neat actually.
The best part was they were in Driver Station #2 so that alliance #3 Team 6175 could use it also to see the field for boulders.
We didnt need it since we have 2 cameras on our robot and just so happen was on the other side of the castle in DS #1.

We may employ something at our Hawaii event during Week 5 but not our upcoming NY trip week 3. We leave in 4 days already.:ahh:

I see no reason for why a camera pole must be attached to the Operator Console.

T26-1 The only equipment, provided it does not block visibility for FIELD STEWARDS or audience
members or jam or interfere with the remote sensing capabilities of another Team, including
vision systems, acoustic range finders, sonars, infrared proximity detectors, etc. (e.g. including
imagery that, to a reasonably astute observer, mimics the Vision Guides), that may be brought in
to the CASTLE are as follows:
B. non-powered signaling devices,
C. reasonable decorative items,
D. TEAM STANDARDS and devices, if needed, to assist placement in the Standard Holder,
E. special clothing and/or equipment required due to a disability
F. devices used solely for the purpose of planning or tracking strategy provided they meet all of
the following conditions:
i. do not connect or attach to the OPERATOR CONSOLE
ii. do not connect or attach to the FIELD or ARENA
iii. do not connect or attach to another ALLIANCE member
iv. do not communicate with anything or anyone outside of the ARENA.
v. do not include any form of enabled wireless electronic communication
(e.g. radios, walkie-talkies, cell phones, Bluetooth communications,
Wi-Fi, etc.)
vi. do not in any way affect the outcome of a MATCH, other than by
allowing PLAYERS to plan or track strategy for the purposes of
communication of that strategy to other ALLIANCE members.

If i’m interpreting this correctly T26-1-F seems to allow devices such as a camera on a pole so long as they aren’t connected to the Operator Console. It seems the legality of such devices are completely dependent on what you call them. If you say it is part of the operator console then it must be attached to the operator console and fit within the correct dimensions. However, if you say that it is used solely for the purpose of planning/tracking strategy then it may be placed anywhere within the castle so long as it is not touching the Field/Arena or the Operator console.

Watch 2122 at AZ North the next two days to see the pole in action. A few other teams are already working on cloning the idea as well.

On the note of T26-1, look at vi of bullet F. I would hardly say a camera used for obtaining a better live view of your robot and the field for your drivers does “not in any way affect the outcome of a MATCH, other than by allowing PLAYERS to plan or track strategy for the purposes of communication of that strategy to other ALLIANCE members.” If you’ve used it to make any driving decision like running an intake or lining up a shot it has affected the outcome of the match.