Wait are you saying teams are actually dissolving because they don’t get a third play? DCMP is based on merit as it should be, not qualifying is a reason to keep working hard, not a reason to quit.
Just imagine what it would have been like to play only one regional (or two for 2x the costs of two districts) just a few years ago.
Not to nitpick, but third plays in-district do count for qualifying awards, such as chairman’s and EI
All 3 of the teams have been incredibly close to qualifying for New England’s. Their robots quality has been going up and would’ve easily qualified if it wasn’t for how competitive NE has become. New England is expanding very rapidly and the district model is unsustainable for the rapid growth. These 3 have lost mentors, kids, and work ethic because it honestly sucks to compete twice and do nothing else. Also sponsors don’t want to support a team that doesn’t preform well which has snowball effect into the team being worse.
Citation needed for NE is expanding rapidly.
And also for “District model is unsustainable for the rapid growth”
You present both as facts without evidence. Please provide citations other than your own anecdotal experience.
My comments are based on the district model FAQ page on the FIT website.
http://firstintexas.org/events/district-model/faq/
FAQ responses are not the official rules, but it is all I can find at this time.
(FIT website)** IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR THE DISTRICT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP, DO TEAMS HAVE TO CROSS A CERTAIN THRESHOLD OF POINTS OR DOES THE EVENT TAKE THE TOP X NUMBER OF TEAMS?**
- This is controlled by the number of teams in Texas.
- The District State Championship will have 64 spots (subject to change). These spots will be filled by:
[LIST]- 10 District Event Chairman’s Award winners
- Top 54 ranked teams yet to be invited
- If a team declines an invitation to the District State Championship, the highest ranked uninvited team on the list is invited
[/LIST]
So, if I am reading this correctly EI and RAS only give you extra points (first two events only), but do not qualify a team for State Championship.
(FIT website) WHAT QUALIFIES A TEAM FOR THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP? DOES A DISTRICT-ONLY TEAM HAVE TO ATTEND THE DISTRICT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP TO GO TO THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP?
- Yes, Texas teams must attend the District State Championship unless they are pre-qualified.
- Teams advance to the World Championship by meeting one of the following criteria:
[LIST]- District Championship
Chairman’s Award, Engineering Inspiration Award, and Rookie All-Star Award Winners- District Championship
Winning Alliance (including backups)- Teams on the final District points Ranking list, as deep as needed to fill our allotment
[/LIST]
As for TX teams going to a regional event, CA, EI, and RAS are no longer awarded to a district team. This is from the FIRST website. https://www.firstinspires.org/robotics/frc/blog/district-teams-attending-regionals
For 2017, in an attempt to make this less unfair, while still retaining some of the advantages of this cross-model team travel, we will be making a change to the rules. District teams traveling to Regionals will no longer be eligible for the Chairman’s, Engineering Inspiration, or Rookie All Star awards at those events.
This is also confirmed in the 2018 game manual.
10.12.3.6 Regional Participation
District Teams do not earn points for their actions at any Regionals they may attend, nor are eligible for
FIRST Championship qualifying judged awards at those events. However, if a District Team does earn a
slot at the FIRST Championship while attending a Regional event, that slot does count as part of the total
Championship allocation the District is receiving for the season.
So, If a TX team wins a regional or gets a wild card, one less team from the State Championship will qualify for Houston.
So to build on what Andrew said:
The District System is a better system for many reasons. One of those is that it is more easily expanded than an expensive regional system. Your statement does not make sense.
According to the FIRST FRC District Rankings page, there are 209 teams in New England. 64 teams attend. 31%
In Michigan, 161 teams make it to states. There are 508 teams. 31%.
I suspect their reasons for quitting were probably more involved than just not making it to their state championship.
This is also the case for out-of-district teams playing in your district. You’re correct that a large number of district points would go unclaimed, however the effect on any single team will be much smaller and pretty indirect. I’m not sure of any situation where a two-play team has been able to directly (and correctly) point to a third-play team as the reason they didn’t advance to DCMP or CMP. I’m sure it’s probably happened a few times, but not enough to be significant. In my experience with districts I’ve been quite pleased with how well it encourages just doing well instead of lawyering the point system.
These two teams generally end up being the same team. It’s probably not worth anyone’s time to argue about the differences between them.
10.12.3.7
T22 C & D:
District EI and RAS winners advance to DCMP, but do not get to bring their robot. However, an EI or RAS win at DCMP will advance them, with their robot, to CMP.
Actually the third team on the alliance would get at least 31 additional points (16th pick plus champion).
All of the third play, o&s and out of district teams actually make your points MORE valuable. The teams that qualify for WCMP at regionals also help make points more valuable.
78 has played 3 district events prior to DCMP the last two seasons. We’ve had teams on the cusp of making it to DCMP root for us to soak up points at our those third events due to how the points work.
I did not mention that because in most cases third picks are not competing at their 3rd event. I’m trying not to start something controversial in this thread again but I’m not quite sure how teams playing 3rd events or teams that are prequalified for stuff are making points more valuable. Could you expand on that?
Are you saying teams who do 3 events dont “compete” at the third one, or that bots who are usually the bottom picks arent usually doing a 3rd play?
Besides the regionals we have right now, will any other district events be created?
Probably. Michigan did that.
When will event locations/dates be released?
**Should be a few more months. They will try to give you as much time to pick which ones you want to attend. You lottery in with First and second choices. **
At DCMP, will we be following the model of Ontario of having two divisions (I hope so)?
Michigan has 4 fields. Depends on how many teams will be attending.
If so, will we be using the Michigan method of determining divisions (I hope so)?
Almost definitely.
There are many power house teams in Texas that already attend 3 regionals, many attending regionals like Colorado, South Beach, and San Diego. Will anything be done to “even the field” as these teams may attend a 3rd event under the district model?
Every team is allowed to attend more than two events(so long as there are extra spots available) and that is just part of the game. FRC is pay to win. If you can afford a third event you are probably already better off. They will not “level the playing field” but all events after your first two do not count towards your advancements to DCMP and beyond although winning a regional will still qualify you for Worlds.
Woah.
Only chairman’s is a qualifying award. EI gets you to DCMP to present for EI there, but not compete with your robot. However, if you win EI at DCMP you get to go to worlds with your robot. At least that is how it is done in MI. EI is worth 8 points compared to most other awards being worth 2 points.
But yes, you can still win any of these awards at your 3rd district. It would only help to win Chairman’s, though.
EI may not qualify your robot, but you can still play with the robot if you get in on points or Chairmans, which is an important thing to specify, especially to those who may not be keen on how district points and advancement work.
You may want to recheck your math.
If Louisiana teams bring a pot of Jambalaya, Gumbo, or Crawfish, can we be included in the Texas districts? 
Thanks for all the responses! As Texas moves to districts, I know many have questions, but may not know where to ask them. I made this thread in hopes of clarifying many questions that I know I along with others had.
If others have questions, feel free to put them in this thread.
Excited for districts, and can’t wait to see how it plays out!
Each district event has a finite amount of points to give out–each award has some, each rank and pick has some, but it’s still a finite amount. With me so far?
For finite resources, when the supply decreases for some reason, the value of the remaining items goes up. We’ve established that district points at a single district event are finite.
Now, to pick on Texas teams:
118, 148, and 3310 all go to a Week 5 district event, and it’s the third play for all three of them. By some miracle, they all end up on the same alliance for elims, ranking first, second, and 15th (in some order), and win the event. They get zero points combined because it’s their third play. That takes ALL of the winners’ points, ALL of the 1, 2, and 15 rank points (and some pick points), and more than likely a few other award points out of play.
The supply of points available from that district event just decreased. The points that are available are now more valuable–and possibly, the lack of a team with <3 events on that winning alliance sends two or three other teams to DCMP.
Is that somewhat clearer?
