Texas UIL State Championship Qualification Information

FIRST General Forum
#80

For some districts it almost assuredly will. For our district it’s written into the board rules that if you qualify for the State level of a UIL competiton, that the school board helps fund travel (I forget the specifics without looking it up). In fact I think there may have been some kerfuffle about it because ____ goes directly to states without any regional/district competition and there were arguments that they shouldn’t be funding their travel since they don’t have to qualify prior. Again, that’s specific to our district but I’d be surprised if we were the only one.

As far as letterman jackets go, you’re correct - it’s definitely a school to school decision. But if it’s a UIL recognized thing - I’d be surprised if any team would be rejected being allowed to letter in robotics. Right now, we’re told no lettering - but I’m hoping with UIL that’ll change for our kids that really want to letter in Robotics.

#81

I’m gonna step out and off this conversation from this point.

Although I’m not happy with some things from FIRST-in-Texas and I’m hopeful things will change on that within the near future… I want to reiterate as I said in an earlier post that FIRST-in-Texas does a lot of things right and really well and has good and good intentioned folks there.

I think people confuse direct discussion with trying to blow things up… and IF we don’t discuss our different viewpoints and experiences HOW do we ever resolve things?

I’ll close with a favorite quote of mine:

“There’s your truth there’s the other person’s truth and nobody’s lying”. --Robert Evans

–Michael Blake

#82

Since the students are not the ones paying the UIL dues, the schools are, that first rule should just read:

  1. Each team must be sponsored by at least 1 UIL member school.

This would allow team supported by the UIL school such as, 3847 and 3481, to play without having to kick people of the team.

#83

Are you sure no one tried or did they try and get ignored? I honestly do not remember. I remember emails discussing UIL committees trying to get things organized and ‘new information coming soon’. I never responded to those emails though. Having served on several different planning committees in various organizations what I have witnessed is that surveys, requests for ideas/thoughts/concerns are sent out and either very few or no one responds. I am not blaming as I am guilty of the same thing just stating what I have witnessed. I have elected not to respond to things but do so knowing that I lose all rights to complain since I am choosing not to make my feelings/thoughts known.

It takes a **tremendous **amount of money to run FRC. IMO this is part of the reason behind the push to get all states on the district model sooner rather than later. Some regionals break even, some raise more than they need, and some lose money and in the end they still have to have enough money to host Champs.

Don’t just follow where the money is going. Trace where it is coming from to begin with. Those with enough power and who supply significant amounts of money to fund things also tend to put stipulations on that money and how it can be spent.

UIL governs UIL not the schools and not FIRST. We just have to abide by their rules to play their games. You don’t have to do FIRST to participate in UIL just like you don’t have to participate in UIL to do FIRST. Unfortunately this year it impacts TRR. Hopefully they will be able to separate the two next year.

#84

This is a holdover from competitive sports in UIL and probably will not see change.

For instance if this extended to football, I could open up “Johns private school for football” and recruit (things normal high schools cannot do) the best players in the state. Then I could basically “rent” them out to UIL schools so they could win games and championships. They would still be UIL since some of the team are UIL sponsored.

Its possible UIL makes exceptions for robots, but I doubt its the case. Its probably going to end up being more strict if anything and only allow students from 1 high school, killing conglomerate teams.

#85

True, but the current rules allows for conglomerate teams of students from any number of UIL schools so long as they don’t have any non UIL members.

#86

I guess I am luckier than most than. My school pays for much of my travel and my equipment even though we are not UIL.

And since you bring up the “points” for UIL, it brings me back to my issue on the FTC side where they are letting multiple teams from a single school compete. UIL is going against the one school, one team policy it has for every other team event.

#87

FRC 1477 has a student on the drive team that is from a non-UIL school. Looks like we will be applying for one of those ten open slots.

We also have students from multiple high schools and at least one from another school district. I think we are okay with respect to the former but I’m not sure about the latter.

#88

But this doesn’t address the issue of multiple teams from one school. I know that FRC has the conglomerate issue but FTC has the multi-team issue. I can’t send multiple computer science teams to a UIL competition so why should I be able to send multiple robotics teams.

#89

This is a pilot. Rules are subject to change. All we can do is provide feedback and hope they bother enough to read it :slight_smile:

#90

I have had great response from David Trussell with UIL when I call or email him in regards to UIL and robotics. David has been working with FIRST on this project for quite a while.

#91

I feel like this thread has gotten way off topic and readers will get the wrong impression about what is really happening in Texas.

The facts as stated by a few people in this thread and the FIRST in Texas website:

  • TRR is switching to an invite model similar to other off-season events this year only
    . Invitations will go out based on the points method described on the FIT website and UIL eligibility. 10 slots PLUS any unfilled slots will be application based entry.
  • TRR is also serving as a pilot UIL Texas State Championship, so any team that falls into the UIL bucket can be recognized within UIL circles. This doesn’t affect any other standings/awards at the event.
  • Any Texas FRC team or collection of FTC teams can continue participating, competing, winning, etc. as they would.
  • If and only if
    that team wants to get recognized in UIL circles with UIL awards and UIL standings, they must be UIL eligible and follow UIL rules.
  • The fact that UIL recognizes FIRST doesn’t mean that suddenly every Texas FIRST team must make themselves UIL eligible.
  • If a school is telling its FIRST team that it must remove students to be eligible, then it is a school issue, not a FIRST or FIRST in Texas issue.

UIL recognizing robotics doesn’t prevent any existing or future teams and students from participating in FIRST. It only gives one more avenue for recognition for those who happen to qualify.

I’ve said it on CD before and I think it would be good advice for this thread:

As it states on the front cover of The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy: DON’T PANIC

#92

Well the argument of this thread is, that by accepting a bid form UIL, some schools/districts will now require their teams be UIL eligible affecting existing teams. So the fact that some teams will have to restructure/turn away kids IS sort of a FIT issue.

While I think in the end, this won’t be as big of a deal as some people think, I also believe its become apparent that a large group of Texas teams are not UIL eligible currently and it’s concerning.

#93

I still consider this a decision on the school district side of things. If the school says “now that there is a UIL option, you must compete in UIL” it is the school being exclusionary. I don’t think it is fair to blame FIT’s move to get more schools involved (schools that don’t look at anything but UIL).

My school has had a rule for a long time that we can’t have students on the team from outside of the district; it is a liability issue independent of the UIL rules. I would assume most schools have similar rules that exist regardless of the UIL status of robotics.

2158 had home school and out of district kids on our team in our first few years until the administration noticed and told us to follow the rules. We had to restructure/turn away kids, but we made the best of it and helped them start their own programs.

It is quite possible that at the schools where teams MIGHT have to restructure, it would have happened anyway regardless of UIL participation once the administration realized that students from outside their school were participating on the school’s team.

#94

+1

#95

The only private schools that are UIL members are Strake Jesuit College Preparatory (FRC#3847 - Spectrum) and Dallas Jesuit College Preparatory (FRC#2848 - All Sparks). This situation only exists because our two schools sued back in 2003.

As Allen mentioned earlier, this makes things complicated for 3847 because all of the girls on our team are from a non-UIL school, St Agnes.

#96

I don’t believe that UIL is the problem here, and by problem I mean the ones people should be upset with. The reason FIRST is supporting the inclusion of UIL is so that FIRST can reach more schools and start more teams (both to pursue their mission and bring in more money). This inclusion of UIL only includes an additional event in the off-season. Notice so far that nothing is being taken away, only added.

From what I’ve gathered, people are upset because either their team won’t be able to participate in the additional UIL event or that they will have to turn kids away in order to attend this additional UIL event. Neither FIRST nor UIL is forcing any team to participate in the additional UIL event. That decision is made solely by the team and whatever school/organization controls the team. So if you are being “forced” to turn away kids from your team, it is because your school is “forcing” you, not UIL or FIRST.

Now let’s look at why your school would be forcing your team to become UIL eligible. One reason may be that perhaps competition in the UIL state championship would benefit the school reputation. Another, more intuitive reason, would be so that their students can receive UIL recognition that they could not receive before. Notice that by not requiring the team to be UIL eligible, you are still not taking anything away from the students, only providing some with more opportunities at the cost of opportunities for others.

So here is the the real question (and this is directed at whoever is making the UIL eligibility decision for the team): Are you willing to turn away some students so that other students can get UIL recognition?

If yes: some students are mildly appreciative but sad that some of their friends aren’t allowed to be on the team anymore. And other students and parents are really pissed off.

If no: great. Literally keep doing what you would’ve been doing if this UIL thing never even came up.

The sad part, in my opinion, is that they have to use TRR for their test run THIS year in particular. Why does it have to be when we’re playing FIRST Stronghold?! Why couldn’t it have been during Recycle Rush?! No one liked Recycle Rush!!! I mean sure, there are a ton of other great off season events in Texas, but I always enjoy going to TRR. But I’ll live, and so will everyone else.

#97

Don’t see why you are trying to act sorry, I’m sure your team will get one of the 10 spots, considering your Bayou performance.

#98

I meant to speak generally, not necessarily with regards to my team. I was just saying that it’s unfortunate that participation is most restricted for such a good game.

And thanks, I guess.

#99

I’ve been following this thread with interest for a while, but have tried to avoid posting because I don’t think it’s my place to tell Texas how they should run, and I probably won’t post more past this. However, I can provide a little insight from Minnesota’s association with the Minnesota State High School League and our state championship. This will be the 5th year we run the event, and it’s been a success each year. Teams come, play, have fun, and a couple of teams walk away with trophies and recognition they otherwise wouldn’t have gotten.

To say the State Championship is a big deal for a lot of teams here is an understatement. Attending, or if your lucky enough winning, brings with it a level of recognition and prestige in our schools that is unmatched by regionals or event champs - States is something that is on par with all the other sports, something everyone in the school naturally gets without having to have everything explained. Having those trophies, which look just like the trophies other sports get for winning their respective state championships, is huge. I’ve known teams that have won regionals, attended champs multiple times… But it’s their attendance at and winning of the state championship that is recognized across their community. It provides them with huge boosts in recruitment and funding as well.

Aside from the championship, recognition from the MSHSL has had a measurable impact on teams. Teachers find it easier to get stipends for their work with the teams, schools provide more funding for teams, and even schools athletic directors are getting involved - in fact, the school I work with renamed the position last year to “activities director” in recognition that it’s about more than just athletics. That support specifically brings with it a lot of help that we never used to have.

So, I’ll always be on the side of “state championships are good”.

For the “split” that’s happening between UIL teams and non-UIL teams… That really is unfortunate. But I strongly believe that FiT didn’t really have a choice in the matter. If UIL is going to recognize robotics programs, and schools are going to care so much about it that we see this level of discussion, isn’t it better to be involved with that process? What would have happened if GoT turned their noses up at the UIL, said “everyone or no one”?. It’s possible, maybe even likely, that the UIL would say “ok, we’re going to recognize this other robotics program instead”. Then where would all of you be? Would we have schools telling you “well, you can’t do FIRST anymore because we want you to do this other program so we get the recognition. Oh, and you still have to refuse any non-UIL student.”? I think refusing to be a part of UIL would have had many more downsides than joining up.

After all, what are we all supposed to be trying to do? The first 4 words of FIRST’s vision is “To transform our culture”. You don’t do that from the outside. So get in there, get the UIL people hooked on the FIRST culture, and try to change theirs. It’s up to each and every one of us to be a champion of FIRST, to constantly push our schools and community to change. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it is something you can achieve.