Teams 217, 1538, and 1986:
I feel the need to express my appreciation for FIRST team 217 and their alliance captain team 1538. They truly earned our respect in the elimination matches at Newton today, inspiring our whole team.
As one of the alliance captains, two members of our drive team were approached by 217 about 20 minutes before the alliance selection with some grave news. We learned that they had fallen from level 3 and broke, and I quote, “just about everything.” Oh, the horrors! They couldn’t shoot, and reported with long faces that they hadn’t even moved in their last match. We really appreciated their honesty – it must have been hard for them to forfeit all hope of a spot in the elimination matches. “Cross us off your list,” they advised, and we grudgingly obliged.
Unfortunately, they must have failed to get this message across to 1538, who selected 217 as the final pick. We feared the worst for the number one alliance after this tragic miscommunication. But as the first match began, we were shocked to see 217 effortlessly sink their 3 autonomous discs and proceed to carry out the rest of the match flawlessly. In fact, their alliance proceeded to smash the first two alliances they came up against without any trouble it all. They were working so well together that it was almost as if this miscommunication was a blessing – a stroke of pure luck – that was meant to be.
Of course, there is only one explanation for these events: 217 has the most amazing pit crew ever. To fix their drive train and shooter in half an hour after falling 10 feet and smashing their robot… Truly impressive. Today, you have taught us that anything is possible.
I cannot leave out 1538’s role in all of this, either. To stick it out with a mangled, crushed robot instead of calling in a backup is a very loyal decision. This is exactly the kind of gracious professionalism I would expect from 2013’s Chairman’s Award winners.
So congratulations, 217 and 1538, because you are what FRC is all about: honesty and gracious professionalism.
Let me tell it like it is: we knew they had a busted robot with strong potential. We thought we could fix their issues, and decided to go for it. Unfortunately, issues returned between the semis and the finals. Tough loss, but we appreciate their patience with us.
Just to clarify my scouting team said they did have a fall, I can’t remember when, but they were in their last match just before ours and I can confirm that they did in fact not move.
217 was genuinely surprised that they were picked. Cow’s took a chance on them being able to get fixed in the time they had and for the most part they did.
Thunder Chickens did well but still continued to have problems.
I must say coming here and making such an accusatory statement anonymously is cowardly at best and you should be ashamed.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you have to admit that from our prospective it is easy to see where such a theory came from. It worked out too well to be purely coincidental or a miscommunication.
As for the anonymity, I foresaw such animosity in the responses and do not wish to direct it towards my team. I also know that I speak for at least two other alliance captains in this thread. Our team numbers are irrelevant.
As you are new, you may not have known that there is a complete forum on CD where persons who wish to remain anonymous can post. A moderator makes sure the poster cannot be identified through the post and posts the thread for them.
Next time, perhaps you should do your scouting and figure out if a team is in fact broken. If they are, and you think they’d be a good pick, follow up and see if they can be fixed. If not, don’t take the chance and pick them. Since when do the scouts on your team take advice from other teams? I’d say it was a huge oversight by your teams alliance captain (you) and the alliance captains of the other alliances who you mention also made a similar mistake.
Team 217, thanks for making it publicly known that you guys were broken. It would have been unfair to the team selecting you for you to keep that hidden from them as they would have been your potential alliance mates. I would have done the same thing, and expected others to do the same for me. I’ve chosen broken roots before. Sometimes it pans out, other times it doesn’t. That’s the “luck” part of FRC that makes Elims so exciting
As for the anonymous thing… Well Eric clarified that.
Why post it on Chief Delphi then? Why not speak to them team-to-team, like people of honesty and gracious professionalism do? Honestly, it doesn’t matter what we on Chief Delphi think about what they wanted or were trying to do (and I’m not saying they had ulterior motive); they are their own moral compass. You want to find out where their moral compass points, talk to them and assess it by yourself. But this is frankly childish, irresponsible, and gutless to post something like this in this manner.
I’m sorry for the wrong that you believe was exacted against you and your fellow alliance members. But if we’re going to be a community that breaks the mold (as stated today), we need to be willing to confront moments like these professionally and forward/upfront; despite the way you may or may not have been treated.
Hopefully they close the thread; this can’t go anywhere but south.
Does nobody have a problem with the fact that 217 told us specifically to cross them off our list – with NO ambiguity – when in fact they were fixable? I understand the point about double checking through our own scout team but that isn’t the issue here.
If a team does not think that they are fixable, the team does not think that they are fixable. End of Story.
If some members of that team think otherwise, and effect a fix, and do not successfully communicate that fact to the rest of the team, the team has a severe internal communication problem. AFAIK, 217 does not have such an internal communication problem. Therefore, it is to be assumed that while perhaps some members of the team were trying to fix the robot, even they thought that they would not be ready in time for eliminations, and requested that nobody pick them.
However, the only way to guarantee not being picked is to decline a pick. If you think someone might be bluffing, call their bluff. If you don’t call it, and it bites you, then that’s your problem.
I don’t disagree with this post. I concede that it’s childish and probably irrelevant but it’s something that I felt warranted discussion. I wanted to get some other opinions on the subject. It seems that most people believe I’m in the wrong here and perhaps I am. But again, looking at it from or prospective it’s easy to see how we jumped to these conclusions.
This is fair. The long and short of it is that a mentor from 227 told us that their robot was broken beyond repair and to cross us off our list. End of.
Someone earlier said something along the lines of “since when do teams take other team’s scouting information?” I forgot to address this, but I have seen teams sharing scouting info all over the place. There are editable google docs for community scouting information, and we had multiple teams in our pit volunteering electronic stats and info throughout this week – which is great.
Why would we have any reason to distrust another alliances scouting info or word? We’re all gracious professionals, no? While it may have been advantageous to “call their bluff,” we shouldn’t have to resort to such measures.
I think you know that you are in the wrong on many fronts, but I do understand the mentality. The rush of emotion when something unexpected like that happens is crazy and insane.
My team has gone through that scenario in our minds as well. The past two years have really opened our eyes, but after a certain point, you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.
At the P’tree regional, a scenario went down where 2415 was approached by the first seed for a pick. 2415, who had struggled for the greater part of the regional, simply commented that they were having consistency issues to give full disclosure to the first seed. The first seed then opted to go with someone else, and 2415 powered through their issues and dominated the finals (for the two matches they played).
So it follows that perhaps 217 was simply alerting you of their situation with pure intentions. Perhaps they just wanted you to know what you were getting into. Whether it was experience, trust, or foresight, your team chose not to roll the dice on this and 1538 did. shrug
I’m not sure if anyone else on this forums understands, but I can tell you that I understand what you’re feeling (having felt it before). However, these feelings are poisonous; they prevent us from being the best version of ourselves. It does not do to dwell on what could’ve been and forget to move forward.
Thank you for your understanding. I want to clarify that as a team we are not as bitter as you have made it sound. We are extremely proud of what we’ve accomplished and thrilled that we made it to elims. We went into our elimination matches knowing we didn’t have a shot at Einstein. Please consider this thread entirely seperate from my team, and although emotions were running high, this wasn’t merely a spur of the moment accusation of rage.
I still stand by my original position, childish as the argument is. This issue isn’t black and white, everyone knows that. But in my opinion, teams employed deception to gain an advantage (whether or not it worked out in the end) and I do have a problem with that. Even it was simply an exaggeration of the true depth of their problems, the fact remains that they told us they were beyond repair and miraculously found themselves in working order by the very first elimination match.
I don’t. There’s a big difference between thinking “we can’t fix this.” and thinking “we HAVE to fix this because now we’re part of an alliance.” 217 is a two time former World Champ and multiple Einstein team - they understand what it takes to win the Big Show. The biggest part of that is creating an alliance that relies on each other. Knowing that two other teams rely on you for their success is a pretty big motivator.
Now, why didn’t they decline when they were picked? It would have been the gracious thing to do, right? Unless 1538 told them NOT to say no. Maybe 1538 said “We’re going to try to pick you anyways, because if you manage to get fixed you will be the steal of our alliance.” After all, the Thunderchickens had an absolutely ridiculous upswing that (obviously) helped make a solid alliance. It might have been worth the risk of having to take a backup bot if there was also a chance of getting the perfect third robot. Maybe 1538’s confidence in 217 was a strong enough motivator too.
It should also be pretty much common sense to think along these lines:
217 thought they were done and out beyond repairs. They do in fact tell 1538 and 1986 this and while these two are waiting for the other 7 alliance to be made they are discussing who to pick. When it became obvious to them that 217 would be the perfect choice these two teams decided that between 217’s crew, as well as their own teams (Who may I remind you built Robots that went 36-4 and 53-4 respectively at that point) could these crews working together during the hour break diagnose the problem, think of the quickest best solution to get it running and try to maintain and improve it through the competition?
My opinion is that between these three teams with 20 Regional/Distict Wins, 5 Championship Division wins, 2 Championship wins, and one of them being in the Hall of Fame as of this year: If anyone could pull this off and make me believe it, these three teams are it
