So what do you guys think about the yellow card/ red card rule and having to carry the stigma of the yellow card for the rest of the tournament?
I think this is an awesome addition! I’m glad they decided to implement it at all events.
(We should all thank Andy Baker for starting this a few years back at the IRI)
I think it’s a good addition, it will be interesting to see how effective it’s use is in competition. Hopefully this’ll prevent aggressive teams from using potentially dangerous tactics.
I’m not a big fan, because it’s a little vague. I mean, it’s then up to the judge if a team is being too rough or not, which is much more subjective than before. Not that I’m saying my team is upset that we can’t push people around like crazy. I just think it’s less defined than before and open to interpretation.
Yes, It makes it so that one judge’s decision is applied to an entire regional, and so that if a team makes one mistake in the beginning of a regional… They are penalized for the rest of it.
Technically it’s not a penalty, rather, just a warning to watch for rough behavior. I find it hard that such behavior could occur accidentally. Keep an eye on your robot and if you see a referee making the pinning hand signals (it’s hard to miss) back off.
pinning isn’t the only cause for a yellow card. also it isn’t always cut and dry, things like ramming are largely a matter of interpretation. This rule would have worked better last year with the cut and dry definitions of the bumper zone and the lack of need for teams to have anything extending past the bumpers. this year however, the arms and manipluators will most likely reach well beyond the bumper zone.
It’s not just “a judge”, it’s the head ref.
On a side note, does anyone find the method of telling a team they have recieved a yellow card rather comical?:rolleyes:
First, the applicable manual:
After reading the manual, I don’t think it’s any more subjective than the rules of recent years. If you misbehave while driving, you will get a yellow card. Do it again (or tremendously over the top), you get disqualified. This just simplifies the warning process, and also signals that yes, the refs DID see that. It also signals to me that the team does or did drive rough, which is something I’d want to know when making my pick list.
I think this is great so that if you know that you have little to no traction, you can see who was rough at a time before. This way you know that they have been rough and you can stay away from them.
It’ll be nice to know who has penalties.
But, can you only get Red Card by getting a Yellow card first? If a team is disqualified WITHOUT getting Yellow first, will they have a yellow next match?
Personally I’m not sure I care for it, though I have mixed feelings. Sure, it’s cool theatrics, but as in soccer it potentially penalizes the teams for separate and unrelated infractions rather than an MO of a certain act (the deterrence of which I’m sure is a major goal of the system). Unlike in soccer, yellow cards are persistent past one game, so two strikes and you’re out, so to speak. I fear this has the potential to burn (for example) rookie teams that make two honest mistakes. I also noticed that the yellow flag rules for <T07> and <T09> represent a potentially strong and demoralizing positive punishment/negative reinforcement system that I haven’t really seen in FIRST before, although that could be a helpful deterrent I suppose; still, the first thing that came to mind when I saw it introduced today was that it was like a team dunce cap. It’s a little strange. Finally and perhaps most importantly, the rules are problematically vague about what actions, and to what degree they are carried out, warrant a card.
The upside of course (and I’m sure this is a main motivation behind instituting the system) is that there is much more transparency and legitimacy behind referees’ warnings. It also encourages them to make warnings, and allows for them to promulgate and record them rather than allow teams to claim ignorance to warnings/suggestions/whatever they interpreted them to be (as many of us have seen in the past). I think this element is very good for the game, but whether the aforementioned potential downsides outweigh it we will only be able to tell after a couple of regionals. It all depends on implementation, and reminds us how important and tough officiating can be.
I’m all for it, last year we tipped over at one point and another team [who we eventualy grew to love] rather blatantly rammed our CMU camera and shooter mechanism… repeatedly. The new rule should keep anything unsportsmanlike from happening.
No, if they make one mistake in the beginning they are not penalized. If they make one mistake at the beginning, then another mistake later you are. Plus they are wiped clean before the elimination matches:
<T09> YELLOW CARDS do not carry forward between qualification matches and elimination matches. All teams move into the elimination matches with a clean slate.
I don’t like it , it makes it too easy for students to have GP. they should have too decide if there actions on the field are first like
they need to learn to live like there grandmother is watching
I like the addition of the card system to FIRST. Something else you may not have considered yet, while the referees are the ones who give you a yellow card, the judges can and will see them as you continue through the competition.
Just some more food for thought.
Wetzel
To clear up a few questions above:
[quote=<T10>] If a team is disqualified during a match for a reason other than receiving an additional
YELLOW CARD, they will receive a RED CARD. This will occur at the completion of a
match, before the field is reset, and will be indicated by the Head Referee standing in
front of the team’s PLAYER STATION and hold a red card in the air.[/quote]
Yes, Virginia, you can still be DQed (with a Red Card) without being Yellow first. Any rule which may be punished by DQ is an automatic Red Card (G12, G20 intent, G35 intent, G40 intent, G50)
This isn’t changing the rules, really, but just setting down a solid enforcement technique. In previous years, a team could be warned against aggressive behavior multiple times because they were “just under” DQ-grade behavior. This is a “red flag” (or yellow, rather) to the refs to keep their eyes out for bad behavior from teams that are toeing the line of G.P. driving.
my first reaction when i heard about the yellowcard was “a canary letter.” i think the flag is a great idea to keep game play fair. as it was posted earlier, who wants to bear the flag when judges in the pits and watching the field are being reminded of their team’s previous fault? it’s like getting a yellow card playing soccer. i believe it is a good addition to the first competition.
I like it because its a good warning but I don’t really like how the flag stays with you for the remainder. I understand that the system is in place to reduce over-agressiveness/ non-gp behavior but I hope that this doesn’t lead to something down the road where basically no robot-robot defensive contact will be involved.
I’m kinda glad to see a rule about this for the 2007 Season. In previous years, our robot has been damaged by robots who have “ram until it breaks” defense plan. With over 50 teams in a regional, a ref cannot remember which team did what. Therefore, the flag will serve as a reminder to the refs to keep an eye on that robot. Seeing the flag will also make alliance members talk about not being overly defensive, as well as remind the team to take it easy.
However, do I agree with Yellow Card - Warning, Red Card - DQ? Not really, I’d like to see you get a yellow card/flag and a warning. Then red card/flag and penalty. And any further action would be a team DQ. But that’s just me…
Just my $0.02.