I think a lot of people felt that championship qualification criteria this year left something to be desired.
Moving forward as a community, what do you think would be the best qualification criteria?
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I think that the waitlist should be canceled and rookie all-star qualification as well but then rookies should be eligible for winning EI.
I also hope that FIRST will be able to raise the number of teams in the championship to about 600 teams
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Universal ādistrictā points along with Winning captain-first pick and Chairmanās being autoqualifiers. EI should be treated like it is in districts where the winner gets to compete for the award at championships and get extra ādistrictā points compared to other awards.
Give each region an āallocationā of spots to advance to championships.
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This conversation is a bit academic, without knowing the actual capacity for champs, or if the space can be moved (doubtful now that HQ has doubled-down for the next 2 years) or reshuffled. But from the stance of a program whose stated goal is to āinspireā students, to win a regional event and not get a bid to champs is wholly uninspiring. To be the 3rd pick, participate in the matches and be told, āsorry, only the captain and first pick get to goā is just unacceptable.
At that point the 2nd pick is just there to show GP and help two other teams go to champs with little hope (wildcard aside) of going themselves.
If FIRST really wants to limit the winning alliance bids to two teams - let them make the next game 2 vs 2 then. (Not going to happen, for so many reasons, butā¦)
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This is already what basically happens in districts. Second picks of winning alliances at districts often do not advance to DCMP (at least in Michigan). The goal of winning an event on its own can be incredibly inspirational.
The fact of the matter is that not everyone can attend championships, and often teams stuck in the 4th-8th alliance hole do not get to attend through the regional system, which leads to frustration for those teams (as shown by the multiple threads every year about making things more āfairā for those teams). Universal district points can help reward those teams.
16 Likes
Add me to the district-esque-for-a-given-regional bandwagon. Chairmanās and winning captain are automatic, winning first pick and EI should have a strong edge, winning second pick/finalist captain/RAS should be in the mix depending on how they did in the other phases of the game.
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Not allowing the 1st pick to auto-qualify would add someā¦strangeā¦dynamics to alliance selection.
I generally consider the 1st pick of the event to be the ābestā robot there, since, by the #1 seedās scouting they were. That wouldnāt be the case if the 1st pick didnāt qualify.
As for my opinion on slotsā¦
Iād like to somehow see the impact award and EI combined into 1 award that auto-qualifies. If the goal is 1 super competitive champs, then the 50% robot performance, 50% culture balance seems off. It would be even better
Iād really like to see district champs follow the regional model in how many team autoqualify, or potentially have no teams autoqualify (and leave it all to points). Those auto-qualifications slots really eat up the district allotment of small districts (Indiana, peachtree etc). It really takes away from the fun of the district events if the outcome doesnāt really contribute to a worlds slot.
So, If I wrote the rules:
All regionals would send the winner captain, winner 1st pick, and 1 culture winner (impact EI hybrid).
After than, I think Iād like to see the finalist captain, finalist 1st pick, Winner 2nd pick, RAS, Finalist 2nd pick.
District champs would only autoqualify those 3 teams. Then all remaining slots would go to points.
Also, Iād like to see any district team playing in a regional to generate a wildcard if they win. They still would be required to earn a slot by points in their district to go. Iād be open to maybe a 10pt boost though.
4 Likes
I want to make one point for those of us stuck in the regional system ā many of us (our team included) only get to go to 1 event, and the cost for a second is decidedly more than in a district. In a district you can be the 2nd pick of the wimming alliance, and still have a chance to go on merit. (Be it another strong 2nd event, awards points, etc) Under the 2022 rules (ignoring wildcards which are no longer automatic) this isnāt an option for many teams.
Imagine a (dystopian?) world where 254 and 1678 play at our local Tech Valley Regional and we end up as third pick. Aside from undoubtedly being a truly awesome experience and inspirational all in itself, that would be it for us.
Weād literally leave as winners, with a banner, some bling, and go home and watch champs on Twitch (unless itās a student on their school computer, theyād not see it at all). Literally youāre part of the winning alliance and donāt advance?
Why does it seem that Iām the only one that thinks thisā¦ odd?
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You arenāt
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No, you are not.
If there are still just 4 slots, I would say:
Winning Alliance (all 3) + Whatever-Chairmans-is-called-now.
(And I say this as a team that wins EI pretty regularly).
6 Likes
Itās worth noting people get pulled from the priority waitlist a lot though
Imagine being the 4th alliance at that event. While we would be inpired by being able to play against 254 and 1678 and lose by to the world high score, we would never go to champs.
Furthermore, many finalist alliance first picks never even went. Any solution that doesnāt even let the finalist 1st pick qualify is a nonstarter for me in CA. You donāt even get a banner for going toe-to-toe with two Einstein alliance captains.
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While there are some points I donāt agree with (mainly Chairmanās not auto advancing) I think @Rachel_Limās Universal Point System proposal should be the starting point for this discussion. That being said, I recognize that there may be a preference for simpler solutions that allow for direct qualification from an event.
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Granted In the case thag you layed out you would go because of hof - as long as they get chosen to receive it next year too - also there is priority waitlist
As someone who is part of a team that has actually had this happen twice (2012 and 2016 we won districts and didnāt qualify for MSC, 2016 it was even as the alliance captain but it was our third event which doesnāt count towards DCMP qualification unless you win Chairmanās), it can be frustrating. However, sometimes there are quirks like that when designing a system for advancement. I guess the question comes down to, would you rather have the (presumably) 24th best bot auto qualify or would you rather allow teams captaining/first picked on the semifinalist alliances have a higher chance of qualifying?
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This past year there were only five winning second picks that qualified via the priority waitlist in addition to one backup and one 1st pick from a single day event.
Here is the breakdown of how each team qualified: Qualification | FRC Division Notifier
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Interesting - both Duluth second picks qualified
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Yes, yes it is. Are priority waitlist teams selected randomly supposably?
I also would like to add on to what I said - winning second picks still can qualify through district points model. Itās just not automatic. After quickly looking through various events, the winning second pick was between 5th-10th generally in district points, so it doesnāt rule them out at all.
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Another problem is that the current system largely incentives later events. For example, say you are 2nd pick at a week 1 and you win the event but you donāt even have a chance of going because there will be no wild cards. But if this was a week 5 event, because there were so many repeat regional winners itās pretty likely that the captain or 1st pick will generate a wild card so you can go. (Not sure if this was a problem before one champs as well)
5 Likes