I may have found something that may be too good to be true… but i have not found anything in the rules that would make it illegal.
Immagine a robot… it cant go over the bump… it cant go under. It starts in the middle zone. in autonomous it uses a very basic pnumatic kicker to get those 2 balls just over to its home field… no aiming into the goals… just getting the balls to the right side of the field. very basic.
As soon as tellop starts, it goes in front of its tower, it touches the tower, and then deploys 2 gravity powered guides that physically attach the robot to the sides of the tower, and keep it level. then, using a very basic winch-and hook, it begins climbing. It reaches the top. the top of this robot is shaped in such a manor that the balls that fall off the ball return hit the top of this robot, and the balls are redirected straight back into the goal… a simple servo connected to a bar directs the balls either to the left goal or the right goal.
basicly, a bot that all it does, is that as soon as a goal is scored, it returns the balls straight back into the goal… every one of the 12 balls the other 2 robots place into the goal means that as soon as that ball is placed back on the ball return, 5 seconds later its right back in the goal. if a robot trys to block the goal… this “god bot” simply directs its payload towards the opposite goal. and as an added bonus, you got a minimum of 2 points for hanging.
any thoughts about this?
the only thing that perhaps could be questionable would be the server that redirects the balls to the right goal or left goal… but there are many ways… to use a properly designed lifting mechanism to till the frame one way, and the balls go left, till the frame the other way the ball goes right.
How do you intend to climb the tower without entering finale mode? It is only allowed during the final 20 seconds, and I don’t think that you could climb the tower while staying inside your frame perimeter.
if your touching the tower… you can expand to your final config at any time.
rule g30 c. TOWER Contact ROBOT Volume - During a MATCH, ROBOTS in contact with their ALLIANCE TOWER may extend beyond their NORMAL CONFIGURATION volume but may not exceed the FINALE CONFIGURATION maximum volume.
I’m relatively convinced this game does not have a chokehold. It’s too big of a design challenge to fit this within the 84 inch cylinder rule while creating surfaces that balls perfectly bounce off of that will repeatably bounce balls into your goals from the middle zone. I think you’re overestimating the force the free falling balls have.
This all hings on the GDC’s ruling on carrying that many of us have been waiting on. IF the GDC rules that you can “redirect” returned balls, then this plan is genius!
edit: while balls may not always go in the goal after falling, they will be ease pickings for your alliance
exactly. just as important as keeping the balls from bouncing into the enemy zone… at a very minimum, it would be very easy to design something passive, and something that doesnt hold on to the balls that just keeps the balls on your side of the field.
I’m not sure about it being legal but my team had the same idea about redirecting balls when we saw the game. If you can redirect balls off the top of the robot then we’re probably going to build our robot for this.
It sounds like an awesome strategy!!! I wish I had thought of it. :rolleyes: I have a couple of concerns around actually building this robot. It could be like 190 in 2008. They had an awesome design, and I was amazed that their creativity. The GDC said it was legal, then changed their mind in between GSR and Atlanta. 190 ended up having to run laps with the slowest robot from that year. Also, I am not sure the human players would be fast enough, you could get quite a “bottle neck” for the middle human player with the trident, and incur a bunch of penalties. Otherwise, it sounds AMAZING!!!
This would only be able to be done with a PASSIVE mechanism. The balls fall on top of the robot, implying that it falls above the bumper zone.
<G45> Active BALL control - ROBOTS may not control BALL direction with active MECHANISMS above the BUMPER ZONE. Violation: PENALTY.
It would depend on the definition of ‘active’ as to whether or not you could change the direction the ball went in (i.e. is the mechanism passive if it is in place and not moving when the ball hits it?)
Don’t get me wrong, this would be a feat worth seeing in person if it could be pulled off. It is exactly like the space elevator concept. While it’s not a chokehold strategy it does leave an additional element in place for the opponents to think about. It is also a good strategy for a robot that can also lift other robots to get two 3-pt suspension bonuses.
Regardless, you have to get your robot to hang from the sides, extend a big lexan plate (which people are free to push), and play 3 on 2 on the ground… when your opponents could hoard balls in their zone and score them all in the last minute or so.
As cool as this strategy is I’d be very concerned about it’s legality. Especially keeping in mind that that the GDC rules on the “intent” and “spirit” of the rules.
These Rules/Definitions may apply:
<G47> BALL RETURN Interference - ROBOTS may not interfere with BALLS in contact with the BALL RETURN. Violation: Two PENALTIES per affected BALL.
POSSESSION: Controlling the position and movement of a BALL
CARRYING: POSSESSING a BALL that is not in contact with the FIELD
I thought this same bot up a few days ago and have been toying with the idea. There’s a very significant downside to this strategy. Yes, it gives you a theoretically very predictable source of balls. But it is also extremely limited. You’re only getting balls your team actually scores, and you’re never recovering any other balls from midfield. If you don’t give yourself any ability to get down at some point, then all you’ve done is make yourself an extremely predictable opponent. If I know my opponent is going to attempt this strategy, the counter strategy becomes obvious. I have my defender concentrate solely on ejecting balls out of my opponents scoring zone and into the midfield, since my midfielder is now completely unopposed there. If I have a kicker that can score even 25% of the time from midfield then you’re now in a world of hurt, because he can line up his shots unopposed.
Basically, you’re trading your mobility and flexibility for what you think will be a steady supply of balls. If that supply gets slowly whittled down, then your plan fails.
What Im not sure is if the FINALE configuration or the BALL INTERACTION volume takes precedence… If in fact its the FINALE Configuration (Im doubtful, though) then who says the mechanism has to be above your bumper? Granted this might be tough, but if you can extend to your finale configuration, you can be outside of your frame perimeter, which means you are free to create an active mechanism BELOW your bumper that directs the balls… again my guess is that the ball interaction volume still is required there… but this is a really cool thought.
Another way to make it work is to use your hanging device to angle your entire robot and “slide”…
I dunno, even if this isnt quite legal, its a really creative idea that is very very close to being legal with the current rules!
Carrying is when the ball is in contact with your robot when it is not on the feild. I would think that since the returning balls are midair that it would be considered carrying. Even if your scoring goals each time you then have a
1pt penalty. The only plus side is the 2pts you get as soon as the game ends and up to eight if the other robots can attatch to you. But the other team can do the same. But you would probally get a red card before the end of the match.
You also have that problem with the six balls the opposing alliance get at the begining. Unless your alliance can quickly get control of all twelve balls you will either have to abandon your offensive position (which may not be a problem) or leave the midefeild unapposed.
But even with the penalties, you could have your alliance try to stall the other bots so they can’t get up onto the tower in time*. Plug the tunnel, park in front of the side of the tower. Or maybe even park on the platform**.
A very good idea. But probally illigal.
*You can mess with other robots during the finale, but you can’t if they are in contact with the tower.
**Not sure about this one. I’ll assume no in the name of Gracious Professionalism.
I wish I had thought of it. :rolleyes: I have a couple of concerns around actually building this robot. It could be like 190 in 2008. They had an awesome design, and I was amazed that their creativity. The GDC said it was legal, then changed their mind in between GSR and Atlanta. 190 ended up having to run laps with the slowest robot from that year. Also, I am not sure the human players would be fast enough, you could get quite a “bottle neck” for the middle human player with the trident, and incur a bunch of penalties. Otherwise, it sounds AMAZING!!!