This Year's Competition

FIRST General Forum
1

Posted by mTd at 1/17/2001 2:04 PM EST

Engineer from Univ of X.

Having been a participant in the competition the past two years, but opting to avoid this competition this year after seeing it, I thought I would express my views on why.

  1. The game this year is less a competition and more a showcase. Yes there is some competition, but you have very little control over your own fate. While you may have designed a great robot, you can go unnoticed more easily than in the past.

  2. While many people here speculate on FIRST getting a TV show, this competition shows why FIRST will NOT be on television any time soon. Many posts described how the game this year will not be as exciting to watch as in the past. If the tv show was limited to the final, there is no guarantee of nothing but great robots because the teams that make it into the finals will have ended up with great partners the whole way.

  3. Everyone advocates the growth of FIRST. But now that the national competition is limited, does everyone feel the same?.. What would you say if your team could only compete at the regional competitons? If Nationals is based on first-come first served, your team may be sitting at home watching the competition over the internet. If the national competition is going to be merit based, the competition has to be structured that way. Currently, you cannot earn your way into the nationals on your own. Not to mention you have to pay in December. before the competition.

  4. Will FIRST continue it’s immense growth? Probably, but then again who knows. Would your team be willing to spend $40K on a game where you do not compete?

  5. This game has lost the strategy found in previous competitons. YES, there is a lot to plan for. Ususually, rookie teams are advised to “try to do one thing great.” Well, when it’s two on two, being able to do one thing great is a good thing. When it’s four on none, its only a good thing if the other teams are compatible with you.

I AM NOT giving up on first. I plan to be back next year. But I think that in the past two years, the competition has started losing the spirit from the past.

2

Posted by uyen at 1/17/2001 5:29 PM EST

Student on team #191, X-Cats, from Wilson Magnet High and Xerox.

In Reply to: This Year’s Competition
Posted by mTd on 1/17/2001 2:04 PM EST:

I think that FIRST isn’t as competitive as it could be. The truth is I’d like a little more competition. But I’m always up for something new!

: Having been a participant in the competition the past two years, but opting to avoid this competition this year after seeing it, I thought I would express my views on why.

: 1. The game this year is less a competition and more a showcase. Yes there is some competition, but you have very little control over your own fate. While you may have designed a great robot, you can go unnoticed more easily than in the past.

: 2. While many people here speculate on FIRST getting a TV show, this competition shows why FIRST will NOT be on television any time soon. Many posts described how the game this year will not be as exciting to watch as in the past. If the tv show was limited to the final, there is no guarantee of nothing but great robots because the teams that make it into the finals will have ended up with great partners the whole way.

: 3. Everyone advocates the growth of FIRST. But now that the national competition is limited, does everyone feel the same?.. What would you say if your team could only compete at the regional competitons? If Nationals is based on first-come first served, your team may be sitting at home watching the competition over the internet. If the national competition is going to be merit based, the competition has to be structured that way. Currently, you cannot earn your way into the nationals on your own. Not to mention you have to pay in December. before the competition.

: 4. Will FIRST continue it’s immense growth? Probably, but then again who knows. Would your team be willing to spend $40K on a game where you do not compete?

: 5. This game has lost the strategy found in previous competitons. YES, there is a lot to plan for. Ususually, rookie teams are advised to “try to do one thing great.” Well, when it’s two on two, being able to do one thing great is a good thing. When it’s four on none, its only a good thing if the other teams are compatible with you.

: I AM NOT giving up on first. I plan to be back next year. But I think that in the past two years, the competition has started losing the spirit from the past.

3

Posted by Chris Orimoto at 1/17/2001 5:39 PM EST

Student on team #368, Kika Mana, from McKinley High School and Nasa Ames/Hawaiian Electric/Weinberg Foundation.

In Reply to: This Year’s Competition
Posted by mTd on 1/17/2001 2:04 PM EST:

I think that this year’s competition is a good mix of something new. Granted I don’t appreciate too much the complications of scoring objectives or the lack of action of visible competition, I still believe that thie year may prove to be either a great accomplishment for the people at FIRST or a nice humbling moment. They may find that this system of “working together” is very effective, or they may find that trying to “replicate” real world situations too much may prove cumbersome. Either way, I suggest that we all put our best effort into this year’s competition and see what happens at the regionals and nationals.

A little side-note…I think the nationals should be merit based. Maybe the top 4 in each region or something like that. I think the regionals should be of more significance to the entire program than simply a practice round for teams going to the nationals.

4

Posted by Nate Smith at 1/17/2001 6:31 PM EST

Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.

In Reply to: Re: This Year’s Competition
Posted by Chris Orimoto on 1/17/2001 5:39 PM EST:

: A little side-note…I think the nationals should be merit based. Maybe the top 4 in each region or something like that. I think the regionals should be of more significance to the entire program than simply a practice round for teams going to the nationals.

While I agree(somewhat reluctantly) that at some point, regionals will have to be a qualifier for the national competition, at this point, the locations of the regionals don’t really allow for it to be fairly done. With the locations of the regionals compared to the locations of the teams, there are teams that would either be left out(Hawaii & Brazil come to mind), or it would be hard to determine which teams belonged to which region(which teams go to West Michigan, which go to Great Lakes, and which to Midwest?) So, until the regionals become more balanced across the US(and beyond, which seems to be the direction FIRST is going), I don’t think that we can fairly say that a team has to go to Regional X and do well to qualify for the National competition.

Just my thoughts…

Nate

5

Posted by Matt Leese at 1/17/2001 6:54 PM EST

Other on team #73, Tigerbolt, from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Rochester Institute of Technology.

In Reply to: Re: This Year’s Competition
Posted by Nate Smith on 1/17/2001 6:31 PM EST:

Given the fact that at kickoff they said that we had more or less maxed out the space available at Disney, I expect nationals to be moved next year. Hopefully to a place that’s cheaper and with more space. Anyways, that’s just my opinion based on what was said. I’m just hoping it’s some place warm. :wink:

Matt who’s tired of freezing in Rochester…and it’s only January

6

Posted by mTd at 1/17/2001 7:12 PM EST

Engineer from Univ of X.

In Reply to: Moving Nationals…
Posted by Matt Leese on 1/17/2001 6:54 PM EST:

Move nationals?.. you have to be kidding.

Maybe move it to to a different parking lot. Disney is what separates nationals from regionals. At a regional, when the competition is over, everyone goes back to the hotel. At Disney, we all go out and have a great time. Perhaps the best aspect of Disney is the transportation. By either staying on Disny property, or off-property at a nearby location, you don’t have to worry about getting your whole team to the competition.

Not to mention the reason that coaches hate to hear, kids love Disney and will work harder to get there.

7

Posted by Matt Leese at 1/17/2001 7:50 PM EST

Other on team #73, Tigerbolt, from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Rochester Institute of Technology.

In Reply to: Re: Moving Nationals…
Posted by mTd on 1/17/2001 7:12 PM EST:

I think the pros and cons of moving nationals have been discussed before and one of the pros is getting kids away from Disney. It provides quite a large distraction. I’m not sure where they’d move Nationals too. I really don’t know of a place large enough to hold it except maybe an indoor pro-football stadium. But I honestly think that FIRST wants to move it in order to allow more teams to attend. They put a cap on it this year and I don’t think they wanted to have to do that. That’s why I think they’ll move it. It may not happen next year but I think it will in the future.

Matt

8

Posted by Jessica Boucher at 1/18/2001 12:41 PM EST

Student on team #237, Sie-H2O-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning Systems & The Siemon Company.

In Reply to: Re: Moving Nationals…
Posted by Matt Leese on 1/17/2001 7:50 PM EST:

The thing I have against “qualifying for nats” is that Nats is such an experience in itself, that it would be a crime to limit the students that recieve that opportunity.

It is a unifying experience (no matter how many tents we have!) and a place where any kind of connection can be made (hey, where else can you meet the head of GM and Jeb Bush in the same day?)…plus, as an incentive, it looks really good on resumes, especially in business, my b-school interviewer was floored to know how much money we raised and how we did it.

Moving it, I can deal with (though I have to agree with Matt, it has to be somewhere warm!)…the mouse isn’t that important, but qualifying for it? Thats nuts.

-Jessica B, #237

9

Posted by Chris Hibner at 1/18/2001 9:08 AM EST

Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.

In Reply to: This Year’s Competition
Posted by mTd on 1/17/2001 2:04 PM EST:

This is my 5th year in FIRST and I’m starting to long for the days of old, so I have to agree with most of this post.

For me, I am in FIRST for two reasons: 1) I’m a very competitive person and any type of competition really gets me going; and 2) I enjoy helping out the students and I am supportive of the “big goals” of FIRST.

With that said, it is because of #2 that I am still with the FIRST team this year. However, it is because of #1 that I seriously questioned if I really wanted to be involved this year. In the end, #2 won out, but unless the competition aspect returns in a larger degree, I don’t see myself having the energy to keep this up for much longer.

I recall telling myself that when the game becomes a race against the clock, it’s time to get out. I already committed to this year’s team before knowing what the game is. Although next year I’ll probably consider what the game is before making a full commitment.

Work plus FIRST is hard enough. Work plus FIRST plus graduate school is nearly unbearable and it was my competitive juices that kept me energized. Without that, I might just cut it back to work plus graduate school (I’m sorry to say).

Regards,

Chris

: Having been a participant in the competition the past two years, but opting to avoid this competition this year after seeing it, I thought I would express my views on why.

: 1. The game this year is less a competition and more a showcase. Yes there is some competition, but you have very little control over your own fate. While you may have designed a great robot, you can go unnoticed more easily than in the past.

: 2. While many people here speculate on FIRST getting a TV show, this competition shows why FIRST will NOT be on television any time soon. Many posts described how the game this year will not be as exciting to watch as in the past. If the tv show was limited to the final, there is no guarantee of nothing but great robots because the teams that make it into the finals will have ended up with great partners the whole way.

: 3. Everyone advocates the growth of FIRST. But now that the national competition is limited, does everyone feel the same?.. What would you say if your team could only compete at the regional competitons? If Nationals is based on first-come first served, your team may be sitting at home watching the competition over the internet. If the national competition is going to be merit based, the competition has to be structured that way. Currently, you cannot earn your way into the nationals on your own. Not to mention you have to pay in December. before the competition.

: 4. Will FIRST continue it’s immense growth? Probably, but then again who knows. Would your team be willing to spend $40K on a game where you do not compete?

: 5. This game has lost the strategy found in previous competitons. YES, there is a lot to plan for. Ususually, rookie teams are advised to “try to do one thing great.” Well, when it’s two on two, being able to do one thing great is a good thing. When it’s four on none, its only a good thing if the other teams are compatible with you.

: I AM NOT giving up on first. I plan to be back next year. But I think that in the past two years, the competition has started losing the spirit from the past.

10

Posted by nick237 at 1/18/2001 10:14 PM EST

Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.

In Reply to: This Year’s Competition
Posted by mTd on 1/17/2001 2:04 PM EST:

As everyone knows when I have something to say I will speak my mind, and its not because I wish to tarnish or degrade the wonders of FIRST but my intentions are that by expressing my views for and against what FIRST has planed I hope that I can change things next year for what I view as great ideas and an exciting competition, however when I post to this or any other site I dont sink behind some Initials and a bogus university “x”.
Have the guts to stand up and be counted, dont hide behind the fence, Thats not what FIRST has ever taught us.
Your views Have no power Mr “x”.
NICK237

: Having been a participant in the competition the past two years, but opting to avoid this competition this year after seeing it, I thought I would express my views on why.

: 1. The game this year is less a competition and more a showcase. Yes there is some competition, but you have very little control over your own fate. While you may have designed a great robot, you can go unnoticed more easily than in the past.

: 2. While many people here speculate on FIRST getting a TV show, this competition shows why FIRST will NOT be on television any time soon. Many posts described how the game this year will not be as exciting to watch as in the past. If the tv show was limited to the final, there is no guarantee of nothing but great robots because the teams that make it into the finals will have ended up with great partners the whole way.

: 3. Everyone advocates the growth of FIRST. But now that the national competition is limited, does everyone feel the same?.. What would you say if your team could only compete at the regional competitons? If Nationals is based on first-come first served, your team may be sitting at home watching the competition over the internet. If the national competition is going to be merit based, the competition has to be structured that way. Currently, you cannot earn your way into the nationals on your own. Not to mention you have to pay in December. before the competition.

: 4. Will FIRST continue it’s immense growth? Probably, but then again who knows. Would your team be willing to spend $40K on a game where you do not compete?

: 5. This game has lost the strategy found in previous competitons. YES, there is a lot to plan for. Ususually, rookie teams are advised to “try to do one thing great.” Well, when it’s two on two, being able to do one thing great is a good thing. When it’s four on none, its only a good thing if the other teams are compatible with you.

: I AM NOT giving up on first. I plan to be back next year. But I think that in the past two years, the competition has started losing the spirit from the past.

11