# tipped bins

If you have a stack of five bins, stacked neatly, and a sttack of four bins, with the top one cocked, they are both worth a 5x multiplyer, but which would be counted as the multiplyer, which as the base?

Yeah a guy on my team though of the same thing. I posted the question to the FIRST forum, but up until now it has not shown up. I hope they answer that soon. We would hope that the stack with the least number of containers would be counted as the multiplier.

I bet that because it’s FIRST they would count the four w/ tipped as the multiplier and the five bins as scattered becuase they don’t seem to want to intentionally be mean about any of it…i bet they would want to help us out as much as they could. But if it were possible you should knock over the five as to not create controversy.

lauren

my thought is that the stack of five would be counted because it is taller in height, but does anyone really know???

by reading and interpreting this rule:

“7.6 Scoring
All containers within the alliance’s scoring zone will be worth one point each EXCEPT the
containers in the tallest stack. The total number of one-point containers will determine the base score
for the alliance. The tallest stack of containers within the scoring zone is the “multiplier stack.”
Containers in the multiplier stack are worth zero points each (note that containers in other stacks of
the same height are worth one point each). The total base score is then multiplied by the height in
whole Stack Height Units (SHU) of the multiplier stack.”

i take this to mean that the tallest stack, in this case the one with five containers, would be considered the multiplier stack.

ai believe in that case, i the 4 high was taller than the 5 high, the multiplier is 4…but if both have 5 bins the multiplier is 5, it wouldnt really matterif both had 5 cuz youd 5 anyways…thew other is just part of ur base score

5 bins stacked neatly is 6" taller than 4 with one tiped on its end. If this helps at all

*Originally posted by Brett W *
**5 bins stacked neatly is 6" taller than 4 with one tiped on its end. If this helps at all **
If this is the case, then the stack with 5 bins is considered to be the multiplier stack… But of course, I wouldn’t mind if the opposite is true.

Actually, it doesn’t really matter which one is counted since your final score would be the same:

Total # of Bins = 9 (one 5-stack and one-4stack)
Stack Height Units (SHU) = 5
Base Score = Total # Bins - SHU = 9-5 = 4
Total Score = Base Score * SHU = 5*4 = 20

Hope this helps!

I believe your base score is based on the number of bins in your zone that are not part of the highest stack and are not dependant on SHUs. The rules state that all bins are worth 1 point, except those in the highest stack. It says nothing about SHUs or anything similar.

I agree that the rules are a little vague, but according to Dave Lavery, that is how the score is determined. We should see an official ruling from FIRST in the next update.

Originally posted by MikeWherley.
**
Actually, it doesn’t really matter which one is counted since your final score would be the same:

Total # of Bins = 9 (one 5-stack and one-4stack)
Stack Height Units (SHU) = 5
Base Score = Total # Bins - SHU = 9-5 = 4
Total Score = Base Score * SHU = 5*4 = 20

Hope this helps!**

This would be wrong. the score would differ 5 points. One stack is five bins the other is four bins. Either way, your multiplyer is 5. 5x5=25, 5x4=20.

As stated here

*The tallest stack in the alliance scoring zone will be determined to be the multiplier stack. Its height is measured in **whole *Stack Height Units (SHU) as described previously in Section 7.6;

The way I read this both the stacks would be consider 5 bins whether the physical deminsions are taller or not. So I think First needs to clear this up.

Mike Wherley stated the scoring method as it was described by the game’s designer. I think the reason for the change is to address the questions about pyramids and overlapping stacks. The only things used to calculate the score are the total number of scorable bins and the height of the tallest stack.

The highest stack is measured with a FIRST-approved Stack Measuring Device (SMD). That gives you the multiplier in Stack Height Units (SHU). Rather than try to figure out how many bins are actually in the stack, they use the SHU value to scale the base score.

You get 1 point for each bin in the scoring zone. Your multiplier is the SHU measured using the SMD.

Your score is ((# Bins in Zone) - Max SHU) * (Max SHU)

It CAN be negative. Say you score 5 bins and manage to stack 3 of them to equal 6 SHU:

Bins = 5
Max SHU = 6

Score = (5 - 6) * 6 = -6

Thanks Sean … now we now how to get negative points!

I don’t think that a negative number is possible. They way I read the rules you get one point for every bin in your zone except the ones in the stack. You don’t add the all up and then subtract you find the tallest stack measure it, those are worth zero and then count the remander totes and then multiply.

I have a new question though. If you had a stack and at the end it was knocked over (before time ran out) and some of them landed on each other so they were a jumbled mess but you had a stack height of 2 (say one landed on top of three) then how is that be scored. If they are all touching each other then do they all count as a stack or do only some and how many do you count.

*Originally posted by seanwitte *
**Your score is ((# Bins in Zone) - Max SHU) * (Max SHU)

It CAN be negative. Say you score 5 bins and manage to stack 3 of them to equal 6 SHU:

Bins = 5
Max SHU = 6

Score = (5 - 6) * 6 = -6 **

I have a question, isn’t this an over-complication of the way the scoring was explained during kickoff?

If you had 5, and stacked 3 to a height of six, you would have 2 scoring bins.

so your score is 6 * 2 = 12

Or am I just confused?

Seems to me they made this harder than they had to, if there are 4 bins in a stack, the stack should be 4 high, who cares if one is crooked.

Flaw.

Your score is ((# Bins in Zone) - Max SHU) * (Max SHU)
It CAN be negative. Say you score 5 bins and manage to stack 3 of them to equal 6 SHU:

Bins = 5
Max SHU = 6

Score = (5 - 6) * 6 = -6

You can’t have 5 bins in your zone and have 6 be the SHU. You are labeling bins in zone as everything, but then counting bins only the floor’d/small stacks.

With your math above (Zone - SHU) * SHU

Bins = 11
SHU = 6

(11-6 )*6 or 5 * 6 = 30

I think the scoring is done this way to remove ambiguity. There is no need for interpretation. Say theres a big mound of bins. Which ones are in the stack? Scoring is simplified because they just count all of the scorable bins and measure the max height with that big pole. The score is just (bins - height) * height. Otherwise it would be impossible to judge and scores these matches without issues.

The dimensions of a bin are nominally 24.25" x 17.25" x 15.75".
One Stack Height Unit is 15.25". So, yeah, you’re right. You cannot have a 6 SHU stack with 3 bins. BUT, with 4 bins you can stretch is out to a max height of 6 SHU. 4 Bins on their side would be about 96". Thats over 6 SHU, and allows a little overlap. Leave one on the floor you have:

## 1 carefully arranged stack of 4 bins, height = 6 SHU 1 bin on the floor

5 Scorable bins
Max Height = 6 SHU
Score = (5 - 6) * 6 = -6

The more probable scenario is the worst case of 0. Two bins, one its side would be (2-2)*2 = 0. The basic negative score would be 2 bins, one on its side on top of the other. Bins = 2, height = 3, score = (2-3)*3 = -3. If you take all of your bins and stack them up you get zero. If the top is flipped you go negative. If you can get a negative score you should get some sort of award…

*Originally posted by seanwitte *
**The score is just (bins - height) * height. Otherwise it would be impossible to judge and scores these matches without issues. **

You seem to contradict yourself, cause scorable bins * height is different from (total bins - height) * height

Example, 2 bins stacked for a SHU of 3, 10 other bins in the scoring zone

scorable bins * height = 10 * 3 = 30
(total bins - height) * height = (12 - 3) * 3 = 9 * 3 = 27

The first way I believe is the right way, as it is simpler IMO.