To Kate,JJ and other frustrated players

FIRST General Forum
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Posted by michael bastoni, Coach on team #23, PNTA, from Plymouth North High School and Boston Edison Co.

Posted on 5/7/99 7:12 PM MST

Guys (Women included),

Isn’t the solution to your frustration obvious?

The kids, the engineers, the teachers and the marvelous
parents that help…they all need the same remedy for the
same frustration…they all need to PLAY WITH THEIR ROBOT MORE…
Not wait till next year to work so very hard to play
so very little…but to work very hard to play ALOT…
To play enough to make the effort worthwhile…and I can
think of only one way to accomplish this without all of us giving
up our day job…extend the FIRST cycle time to 36-48 months…

It is PLAYING WITH THE ROBOT that is just as inspirational
as building it…

FYI

I just returned from 2 days at the MIT 2007 Design Competition.
Wow…very cool…and looking more and more like FIRST.
The 2007 design competition is the genesis of FIRST…it
is the competition orginated by the good doctor his own self.

DEKA hung a banner and the MIT FIRST team offered a
show and tell…

I went because I wanted to ‘sense’ the roots of FIRST…
I went because I am listening to Dodd Stacy and JJ and Tom Wibble
and so many more of you who do not frequent these pages…
and I am trying desperately to formulate a consensus…
I believe we are all searching for a way through the
FIRST woods…and we are coming close…

But I noticed one thing at 2007…the students are doing the
design process FOR COURSE CREDIT…the students are
BUILDING THE MACHINES…and every student who completes
a machine gets an A for the course…Participation
in 2007 is FREE (There have been kit costs in the past
but GM made them free this year)and get this…of the original
contestants…about 50% were none or low functional…
But please note that those top robots who were functional were
very functional…

So within the parameters of 2007, a builder can work hard
learn by doing and laugh when things go wrong…and
walk away with little or no frustration…

Because,

They have not sold themselves to a sponsor, promised
their community that if they send them to Disney World
they will do their best (and be their luckiest)…moreover
The kind wonderful MIT prof’s are not neglecting
curriculum development because 2007 IS CURRICULM…and
students are not forgoing grades because 2007 IS THEIR GRADE…

Putting FIRST in the classroom is one way to make it
serve the valuable purpose that 2007 serves…and this is becoming even more
more attractive since the state educational frameworks has added
Engineering to the Scince and Technology strand …and
making the game more PLAYABLE is a way to get it into the schools.
After all,no sports teams practice six to eight weeks in order to
play only twice…the kids simply would not stand for it.

Campaigning a machine that you as a student helped to maintain,
in some instances to design and fabricate…is very
very inspirational…not to mention empowering…

Look, many FIRST teams have been fortunate in placing many of our FIRST
students into good competetive colleges and universities,
…because we can write wonderful
truthful letters ABOUT WHAT THEY DID TO MAKE A TEAM SUCCESSFUL
not about how inspired they are…but WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DID…
Quantitative, descriptive assessments…not anecdotal
meanderings about how much they like technology.

I loved 2007…I loved the scale of it…the robot building and design
effort is in proportion to the playing time.Maybe
all we have to do is to get our building effort/costs to
playing time proportions in line…

and hats off to Alex Slockum the professor who runs it is a worthy antecedent to
Woodie hisself…

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Posted by Andrew Trax, Coach on team #180, S.P.A.M., from Southfork,Martin Co. High and UTC.

Posted on 5/8/99 4:42 AM MST

In Reply to: To Kate,JJ and other frustrated players posted by michael bastoni on 5/7/99 7:12 PM MST:

‘But I noticed one thing at 2007…the students are doing the
design process FOR COURSE CREDIT…’

In Florida, in grades 1-12, most students have to submit an entry for
science fair, whether it’s an experiment or report. As an option, students
at our team’s 2 high schools were given the option of doing a project or
being on the FIRST team.
Some high schools have incorporated FIRST into the curriculum. It isn’t
just an after school activity.
You make an excellent point. The level of time, money and effort is
dispropportionate to the school credit some of the students receive. But
I really believe that as more high schools get involved, we may see the
robotics teams competing weekly against other local high schools just as
the sports teams do.
What if the kits and rules were available to classrooms in September. Maybe
even the previous year’s kits. Call them ‘non-national team kits’ and a reduced
price. Spread them throughout a school district and make it intramural.
Leave participation in Regionals and the National as an option. But make
the game a local sport as well. It would almost be an ‘Advanced Lego League’.
And isn’t that the real goal? To make science and technology as exciting
and rewarding as any sport?

Mrs. Trax

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Posted by Andy Grady, Coach on team #42, P.A.R.T.S, from Alvirne High School and Daniel Webster College.

Posted on 5/8/99 3:06 PM MST

In Reply to: School credit for robot building posted by Andrew Trax on 5/8/99 4:42 AM MST:

How about instead of having the advanced lego league, why doesn’t FIRST start the Lego League in september, and have current high schools involved with FIRST be the mentors to the younger students in the lego league. This would help get high school students prepared for FIRST, while allowing them to incorperate Lego League into their school’s curriculum and incite intrest from the younger middle and elementary school students. Just think, high school students will begin to see what the program is like from an engineers point of view as the mentors while the younger students will gain the experience of FIRST not only through the Lego League, but also through the stories of FIRST that the high school students can pass on to them. You can’t miss!!! Think about it.
Cya all,
Andy Grady, DWC/Alvirne HS

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Posted by michael bastoni, Coach on team #23, PNTA, from Plymouth North High School and Boston Edison Co.

Posted on 5/8/99 4:07 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: School credit for robot building posted by Andy Grady on 5/8/99 3:06 PM MST:

Andy,

You are soooo right on…Our high school FIRST students mentored
three FLL teams last year…and we learned something wonderful…

6th, 7th and 8th grade kids would much rather work in concert with
high school students…than old men like me…or wonderful teachers like
Cindy Greenwood and Beverly Quilty-Dunn…the Intermediate school teachers responsible for the programs success…

In fact this year, these hardworking, talented teachers have spawned
as many as 10 teams in our school system…our science coordinator Nick Miccozzi is opening up a Lego robot camp this summer…

And if you ask ANYONE involved in the Plymouth FLL…they will willingly credit our FIRST high school students, Ken MAgno, Chris Cotti, Branden Gunn, Mellissa Roy and Nick Christophori, the coach of the 'Winning team…

So Andy…your right…and to the rest of you FIRST kids go for it…cause you will feel so good about it…and yes…you can include it as community service on your college apps…

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Posted by Dan, Student on team #10, BSM, from Benilde-St. Margaret’s and Banner Engineering.

Posted on 5/8/99 5:39 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: School credit for robot building posted by Andy Grady on 5/8/99 3:06 PM MST:

I know you’re right because I’m doing just that now. I’m in the Advanced Competitive Science class (aka ACS) at my school where I DO get credit for my work on the robot and for my work with one of our Lego League teams preparing for the competition we’re organizing on May 22. Lego League is the perfect complement to FIRST, I can understand what my teacher has to deal with and I get a chance to inspire other kids for a change. BTW, all you schools who don’t have Lego League teams, look out-these junior leagues are going to produce some amazingly talented engineers. :-Dan

: How about instead of having the advanced lego league, why doesn’t FIRST start the Lego League in september, and have current high schools involved with FIRST be the mentors to the younger students in the lego league. This would help get high school students prepared for FIRST, while allowing them to incorperate Lego League into their school’s curriculum and incite intrest from the younger middle and elementary school students. Just think, high school students will begin to see what the program is like from an engineers point of view as the mentors while the younger students will gain the experience of FIRST not only through the Lego League, but also through the stories of FIRST that the high school students can pass on to them. You can’t miss!!! Think about it.
: Cya all,
: Andy Grady, DWC/Alvirne HS

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Posted by Tim Murray, Student on team #126, Gael Force, from Clinton High School and NYPRO inc…

Posted on 5/9/99 7:59 AM MST

In Reply to: Re: School credit for robot building posted by Andy Grady on 5/8/99 3:06 PM MST:

Andy,
Another great idea. Unfortunately, some it is already being done.
FIRST is having a lego league and it’s taking place in september. I
love that idea so much and i think that FIRST will benefit greatly from
it. I have already, along with a few other returning students, asked
to mentor some of the students at the middle school. The way the lego
league is set up. a team is composed of about 5-7 students (i think)
so a middle school could send multiple teams down there and FIRST
students could take a team by themselves receiving help from teachers if
they needed. All in all, I think that this lego league will be a huge
success and i’d like to say hats off to FIRST for putting this together
and i hope they’ll stay away from tri-alliances in this league :wink:

Tim

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Posted by Tim Murray, Student on team #126, Gael Force, from Clinton High School and NYPRO inc…

Posted on 5/9/99 7:52 AM MST

In Reply to: School credit for robot building posted by Andrew Trax on 5/8/99 4:42 AM MST:

: ‘But I noticed one thing at 2007…the students are doing the
: design process FOR COURSE CREDIT…’

: Some high schools have incorporated FIRST into the curriculum. It isn’t
: just an after school activity.
: You make an excellent point. The level of time, money and effort is
: dispropportionate to the school credit some of the students receive. But
: I really believe that as more high schools get involved, we may see the
: robotics teams competing weekly against other local high schools just as
: the sports teams do.
: What if the kits and rules were available to classrooms in September. Maybe
: even the previous year’s kits. Call them ‘non-national team kits’ and a reduced
: price. Spread them throughout a school district and make it intramural.
: Leave participation in Regionals and the National as an option. But make
: the game a local sport as well. It would almost be an ‘Advanced Lego League’.
: And isn’t that the real goal? To make science and technology as exciting
: and rewarding as any sport?

: Mrs. Trax

You’re absolutely right! I believe that playing time will increase
as regionals increase and the best way to do that is by helping
FIRST grow. The idea with the kit and giving them out at the
fall sounds great to me. That’s probably the best idea i’ve heard
on this forum so far. We’re a couple years away from dividing up
into divisions and going into all of this far-fetched stuff that
people on this forum often write about. But for now, one way to
make things fair and get more teams seems to be right in Mrs. Trax’
suggestion. I hope FIRST heard that idea!

Tim

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Posted by MaryEllen, Other on team #180, S.P.A.M., from South Fork and Martin County High Schools and UTC/Pratt & Whitney, FL.

Posted on 5/8/99 3:50 PM MST

In Reply to: To Kate,JJ and other frustrated players posted by michael bastoni on 5/7/99 7:12 PM MST:

: I just returned from 2 days at the MIT 2007 Design Competition.

I’ve been searching the 'net for info about 2007 and haven’t bumped into anything.
If you have an web address, I’d like to check it out.

Thanks
ME

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Posted by Frank, Coach on team #97, Psychedelics, from CRLS and MIT.

Posted on 5/8/99 4:01 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: To Kate,JJ and other frustrated players posted by MaryEllen on 5/8/99 3:50 PM MST:

Here’s a link to the 2.007 homepage.

http://pergatory.mit.edu/2.007/

For those that don’t know, 2.007 is a small robot design competition
at MIT (small in comparison to FIRST). It’s done mainly by
sophomores in mech E although anyone who’s taken 2.001 (Intro class
for Mech E.) and 2.670 (A class on using shop machenery) is
welcome to compete.

Frank Bentley
Team 97 - MIT/CRLS '99
Team 111- WildStang '96-'98

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Posted by Bethany Dunning, Coach on team #163, Quantum Mechanics, from International Academy and Quantum Consultants/EATON/ITT Industries.

Posted on 5/9/99 10:22 AM MST

In Reply to: To Kate,JJ and other frustrated players posted by michael bastoni on 5/7/99 7:12 PM MST:

We just got our robot back from Florida (it decided to spend a few days on the beach after the team left, judging by the sunburn :wink: and I am so looking forward to playing with it. As coach, I have yet to drive the machine, and am desperately looking forward to trying my hand at it!
:
: It is PLAYING WITH THE ROBOT that is just as inspirational
: as building it…

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