To qualify or not to qualify

Posted by Erin.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Student on team #1, The Juggernauts, from Oakland Technical Center-Northeast Campus and 3-Dimensional Services.

Posted on 6/9/2000 2:26 PM MST

There was a question once asked, ‘Should the nationals be an invitation-only event?’

People said no, everyone should be allowed.

But how do people feel now that there are so many teams involved in the competition? Should only the top 15 teams or something from each regional get to qualify for nationals, etc.? What do you all think?

I would love to have every team come to the nationals each year. However, having FIRST become larger each year (by growing over half its size) how are things going to become?

-Erin

Posted by Patrick Seeney.

Student on team #469, Las Guerrillas, from Oakland Robotics and Lawrence Technological University and Magna Seating Systems, Nachi and Kuka Robotics.

Posted on 6/9/2000 2:38 PM MST

In Reply to: To qualify or not to qualify posted by Erin on 6/9/2000 2:26 PM MST:

There is a major flaw in your reasoning. SOme teams only raise enough money so they can travel to the national, some so they can only attend a regional. If that is the case, those teams are at a disadvantage to other teams that can attend 3-4 regionals, and nationals. Those teams have 4 times more oppotunities to qualify for the top 15 to go to nationals. It would not really be in the spirit of FIRST to limit teams to going to the national, part of the mission statement of FIRST is to open up engineering to high school students because the math and science courses offered to the students are looked down upon by the rest of the world, a little off subject, but limiting it that, some teams, like my own, would have to rely on the one regional that we attended this year in order to qualify to go to the national.
No matter which way FIRST or anyone tries to offer a different way to view things, there are going to be teams that will be excluded, there will be instances where it won’t be fair. I agree that the current system is based on teams that have a reputation and are known through out FIRST, and it is harder for the little guys to put such a great impression, but who knows what FIRST will try to do to regualte things, only time will tell.

Pat

Posted by Erin.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Student on team #1, The Juggernauts, from Oakland Technical Center-Northeast Campus and 3-Dimensional Services.

Posted on 6/9/2000 7:09 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: To qualify or not to qualify posted by Patrick Seeney on 6/9/2000 2:38 PM MST:

Before you criticize the ‘major flaw in my reasoning’ realize that I was just bringing up convorsation. Personally, I do not support in any way the nationals being an invitation only event, and I am scared that one day, that is all it will be. I didn’t like your assumption that this was what I was saying, because it was not was what I was implying at all. I was merely wondering what other people thought would happen. Would you not agree that by my message, it seemed as if I was only bringing up a topic for conversation? Because that’s all it was. If you did not appreciate the wording in my message, I will request that it be removed and I will rack my brain to make sure that it does not offend anyone. Thanks.

-Erin

Posted by Patrick Seeney.

Student on team #469, Las Guerrillas, from Oakland Robotics and Lawrence Technological University and Magna Seating Systems, Nachi and Kuka Robotics.

Posted on 6/9/2000 8:08 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: To qualify or not to qualify posted by Erin on 6/9/2000 7:09 PM MST:

I am sorry, that is not what i meant. I may have come off a bit hostile, and i am sorry for that. I was just saying, that having a system like that may not be the best possible idea, because there are smaller teams that may not have the same opportunities as some of the larger teams. Once again, I am sorry for offending, you, i did not mean to in anyway.

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Coach on team #246, a FIRST-aholic, from John D. O’Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy and NSTAR/Boston University/UTC/Raytheon/MassPEP.

Posted on 6/9/2000 11:29 PM MST

In Reply to: To qualify or not to qualify posted by Erin on 6/9/2000 2:26 PM MST:

not ‘invitation’… but on you have to qualify for them, yes…

however… i think the only way to implement that would be to make more events for the qualifying process… i.e… it all can’t be laid on the line by one competition…

if FIRST was structured kinda like high school sports… you play within your area, then state (maybe not applicable now)… then regional… then possibly a larger-area covering regional, then nationals… i think key to this whole process and helping kids learn more is being able to compete more… you sometimes learn more in those 3 days than in the 6-weeks of building… and i think everyone would enjoy having more chances at competition…

however, i think to pull that off… the concept favored by the likes of Bastoni back in the day of keeping the same competition for multiple years would have to be put into effect…

that may or may not have made sense… flux fumes have taken effect

Posted by Andy Grady.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Coach on team #42, P.A.R.T.S, from Alvirne High School and Daniel Webster College.

Posted on 6/10/2000 8:14 AM MST

In Reply to: To qualify or not to qualify posted by Erin on 6/9/2000 2:26 PM MST:

I stated this earlier in the year i believe but ill throw it out there again. I feel that there should still be a super huge national competition. However I feel that the competition should be partitioned. Have say the top 100 teams from all the regional competions compete in the grand championship tornement, and then for the rest of the teams going have a side tornement at the same time. Then say just for the heck of it, you throw the winners from the Grand Championship against the winners of the Consolation tornement to see who really is the king (this also gives teams who can only go to the national competition a chance to go for the gold. The system has flaws, but it would make things a heck of alot easier.
Cya Later,
Andy Grady, Team 42 DWC/Alvirne

Posted by Meg Z…

Student on team #349, Robahamas, from International Academy and Ford Motor Co…

Posted on 6/10/2000 4:54 PM MST

In Reply to: Partitioning the national posted by Andy Grady on 6/10/2000 8:14 AM MST:

This idea does have merit. However, I think there is one major flaw which is that teams in the ‘lower’ competition and teams in the ‘higher’ competition would not get to interact as much. It’s not that great to watch matches when half the robots are broken and there is little or no scoring, which would happen if it was all lower seeded teams. Scouting for the big competition (winners of high vs winners of low) would also be a huge problem because you wouldn’t know who you’d be up against, or even if you’d make it that far. Part of the excitement of the nationals is that EVERYONE is there all at once and you could be allied with or go up against anyone you meet. I definitely think dividing the nationals is preferable to having it be by invitation only, but it still needs to be all one competition.
In my opinion, extending the national competition would be better than partitioning it. This provides for more seeding matches so everyone gets a better chance. With the amount of teams that are reportedly being added this year, they’ll have to extend it anyways if they want us to play more than one seeding match.
Meg :slight_smile: 349

Posted by S. Krussell.

Coach on team #349, Robahamas, from International Academy and Ford Motor Co…

Posted on 6/10/2000 7:29 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: Partitioning the national posted by Meg Z. on 6/10/2000 4:54 PM MST:

Hey Meg,

Let’s jump the gun this year, and ask the question asked by Joe Johnson last January.

How many FIRST teams will there be for 2001?

My guess is 410. Same as last year, which was short.

Posted by Amy .

Student on team #126, Gael Force, from Clinton High and NYPRO.

Posted on 6/10/2000 7:34 PM MST

In Reply to: To qualify or not to qualify posted by Erin on 6/9/2000 2:26 PM MST:

I would really hate to see nationals become an invitation-only event. I think Colleen is right when she says that you sometimes learn more in those three days than in the whole six weeks of building. Maybe as FIRST grows in size, nationals could grow, too, meaning that the event could maybe be a weeklong thing. I know that this brings up issues with fundraising and travel arrangements and what have you, but I think that it could work.

Posted by Patrick Seeney.

Student on team #469, Las Guerrillas, from Oakland Robotics and Lawrence Technological University and Magna Seating Systems, Nachi and Kuka Robotics.

Posted on 6/10/2000 8:24 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: To qualify or not to qualify posted by Amy on 6/10/2000 7:34 PM MST:

:I know that this brings up issues with fundraising and travel arrangements and what have you, but I think that it could work.

Also with students missing school, I know that the students of my team are only aloud to miss a total 6 days in each respective class, after that the lose credit.
Pat

Posted by Nate Smith.

Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 6/21/2000 1:25 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: To qualify or not to qualify posted by Patrick Seeney on 6/10/2000 8:24 PM MST:

: Also with students missing school, I know that the students of my team are only aloud to miss a total 6 days in each respective class, after that the lose credit.

Only 6? Wow…at the high school I went to, it was 14…one thing that you might want to look into if this becomes an issue is the possibility of classifying the absences as ‘school-related’…in many cases, absences that are related to a school activity(at least in my experience) and recognized as such by the administration will not count against a ‘X missed days=no credit’ policy.

Nate