Too many balls? Not enough inertia? - Copperforge Flywheel Interest Survey

Hey y’all -

Over the last few weeks, we’ve been hearing a lot about flywheels. Ball control. Compression.

Lots of flywheels. Flywheel shooters. Flywheel design calculators (thanks, Julia!). More flywheels!

So we figured - we have machining resources, and we’re not afraid to use them! Why not make a few?

We have supplies and tooling on hand to make a few, and it’s a short drive to pick up more materials. Thanks to Nico Machado (3309 alum, @nxmq99) we have an extra set of hands and more access to the shops here at WPI.

So what we want to know - would teams be interested in a limited flywheel run? We’re looking at something with the following tentative specifications:

Diameter: 5.9"
Thickness: .9"
Weight: 2.6 lb (1.2 kg)
MOI: 15.93 lb-in^2 (0.0046617 kg-m^2)
Bore/Hub: 1.125" bearing bore, 1.875" bolt circle (#8-32 tapped)

and/or:

Diameter: 3.9"
Thickness: 1.45"
Weight: 2.2 lb (1.0 kg)
MOI: 5.99 lb-in^2 (0.001753 kg-m^2)
Bore/Hub: 1.125" bearing bore, 1.875" bolt circle (#8-32 tapped)

Feel free to get in touch with us if you’d like, and please fill out this form if you’re interested!

Cheers,
Ben (@benjaminward) & Solomon (@solomondg)

8 Likes

technically they’re 0.08% copper by mass, so we’re allowed to make them

8 Likes

Is there any reason not do have just a straight hex bore?

1 Like

Definitely interested. Would be more useful with a hex bore in it but we can always bolt in the versahubs.

Probably machining simplicity. I can’t speak to how they’re planning to produce parts, but eliminating the need to broach with an arbor press eliminates a (probably manual) step in the process, which could speed up the entire production run.

1 Like

Is there any reason not do have just a straight hex bore?

Exactly as Jon said - machining simplicity. We can crank these out with two mill ops if we have a bearing bore, while a hex bore would require buying a nearly $300 broach and making poor Nico get on a press.

Plus, not everyone uses 1/2" hex bore; we figured it would be most useful to let teams have the option of what shaft to use, including dead axle support.

Any idea on price if you decide to move forward? We might be interested if the price is right.

We’re looking at somewhere in a range of $30-40 ea. depending on material costs and how many we’ll be making.

Are these dished/pocketed such that the bulk of the mass is at the rim? or are they just solid disks?

5 Likes

Extremely pocketed! Plenty safe though - we’ve done a whole bunch of FEA and soon some real world testing, both the 6" and 4" version are rated up to around 6.5k RPM w/ a FoS of around ~8 (we’re being careful on this one).

Any chance you could validate these at higher RPMs? I know quite a few teams geared in the 10K-12K RPM range.

15 Likes

Sure thing! When we’ve finished a beta unit or two we’ll do some testing and see what these can take in the real world. We’re still not sure what sort of balance we’ll be able to achieve, which is why we’re initially hesitant to rate at those sorts of RPMs, but we’ll update our specs once we have some real-world numbers.

How are you calculating this?

Ran the current CAD through Ansys FEA at a few different RPMs, simulated centrifugal force as well as shock loading (full deacceleration over 0.1s). FoS is calc’d from yield strength of the flywheel material (1018) given stress reported by the solver. We’re tuning some parameters for maximum MOI:mass ratio, so numbers might change a bit - we do hope to be able to rate at least the 3.9" flywheel to the low five digits RPM-wise.

5 Likes

I’ll only buy it if it’s forged.

13 Likes

Next question - you’re giving a common hole pattern - but are any of the hubs available for that hole pattern capable of holding that wheel at that high a speed?

Standard hex hubs have 1.125 OD’s so they should be a press fit into the center of the flywheel. Add in the bolts and I don’t see any problem

Any idea what the timeline on these will look like before (possibly) coming to market? A week, two weeks, a month?

Can’t you still mill a hex with a small enough endmill and “relief holes” at each vertex?

1 Like

You could wire edm a hex, but it would be quite an adventure to mill one. In theory you could drill out the inscribed circle, and then go in with a very small (easy to break) end mill, however, It would probably cost them more then buying the hex broach in the end, and it would never be a true hexagon.