I’ve looked through a number of these kinds of threads but I figured I’d create a new one for this specific scenario:
My team recently received a grant for $1000 that our lead mentor has set aside for “tools”, he is primarily interested in getting a decent vertical Bandsaw for cutting metal with reasonable accuracy/consistency.
We currently have access to a (very) large vertical band saw in our wood shop (but only for cutting wood/plastic) and a horizontal band saw in our auto shop, though neither cut particularly straight/clean.
I’m not familiar with the differences in quality between different price points and brands out there so any recommendations would be helpful. We don’t want to get something that’s “cheap”, but if it turns out we don’t need to drop $1000 on a band saw we could also use the remaining money for other tooling (any recommendations for other tooling would also be helpful, as we currently have just basic hand/power tools).
Our team uses a vertical woodworking bandsaw with a blade for cutting aluminum and it works pretty well. We use it for cutting plate mostly and a miter saw with a carbide blade for cutting narrow stock. If you’re looking to get accurate cuts on narrow stock, horizontal bandsaws are usually the best and most accurate though. If you’re looking for accurate, I would stay away from vertical bandsaws.
Have Access to (owned by other classes in the school, may limit access at times):
Large Vertical Band Saw (wood/plastics only)
Horizontal Band Saw
Manual Metal Lathe (no digital read-outs, also questionable if it works)
Brake Press
Various Large Table Saws (Wood/Plastics)
Circular Sanders
Bench Grinders
Owned by the team:
Tabletop Drill Press
Tabletop Circular Saw
Assorted Table Clamps
Assorted Battery-Powered Drills
Assorted Wrenches
Assorted Screwdrivers
Hack Saws
Various tools for electrical (crimpers, cutters, and such)
Unfortunately our wood shop doesn’t like us using their for aluminum cause it messes up the blade and doesn’t want us changing the blade (because frankly the machine is like 100 years old). The Auto shop has a horizontal band saw they use for cutting steel, but it’s seen better days and doesn’t cut very straight.
If you can rangle up $1800 or so you can get a nice grizzly manual milling machine that is gonna be big enough to do anything for an FRC robot with a digital read out.
If you already have an assortment of saws then I don’t really see why you’d need another one.
Part of the reason for the band saw is we want something higher quality than what we currently have access to, but also because our coach is trying to start a robotics class which would need it’s own tools (since they’re not going to be barging into the wood shop/auto shop every time they need to cut something).
I do agree that a small manual mill would be nice to have though, and definitely something I’m pushing for with other grants we’re working on.
What is everyone’s thoughts on Grizzly products? I have no opinion one way or another, but our coach said he had heard bad things about them (or the band saws at least).
We have a Grizzly mill in the space down here. It’ll do.
I’m not a big guy and I can move the head 2-5 thou out of square by simply putting my hand on it. I’ve seen it go out about that after taking a light cut out of steel.
It is probably fine but you have to go slower than with a larger mill.
I also have no faith in it lasting nearly as long as a bridgeport, but if you know it’s limits and respect it I know you can get usable parts out of it.
A friend who has a bunch of CNC routers from a cabinet making business he used to own said that cutting metal will cause metal particles to be deposited onto wood that is cut afterward making it difficult to get a nice finish on the wood.
A good quality vertical metal cutting bandsaw would be more useful than a mill at this point in your team’s development.
The bandsaw should not use up all of your $1000 budget. You may want to get a second tabletop drill press. A heavy one.
Some other tools you may want to get:
Battery Beak
multi-output battery charger
Get a bunch of drill bits with multiples of the commonly used sizes.
Get some T-handle Allen wrenches.
ratcheting
crimper for red/blue/yellow lugs
ratcheting
crimper for 6 AWG wire
Harbor Freight throatless shear
set of good quality tin snips (left, right, straight)
Good to know!
I think our coach might be looking to get a separate grant for a decent Bridgeport (or equivalent) so that might have been why he wasn’t looking at getting a mill from this $1000 grant.
Do you have (or know anyone with) any experience with Grizzly band saws, or is there another brand/model you might recommend? I’m not familiar enough with this kind of equipment to know the difference between the “Cadillac” model and the “harbor freight special”. We want something that’s going to last a while.
I left a few little things off my list so we do already have some of that stuff:
Get a bunch of drill bits with multiples of the commonly used sizes. - Have several sets, need to get more of common sizes
Get some T-handle Allen wrenches. - Have several sets. Where do you buy these individually? We can only find sets
ratcheting
crimper for red/blue/yellow lugs - Need this, have non-ratcheting
ratcheting
crimper for 6 AWG wire - Need this, currently using a bench vise (not great)
Harbor Freight throatless shear - What is this used for?
set of good quality tin snips (left, right, straight) - Have a few of these kicking around, not sure which kind though.
Do you have any specific recommendations for a decent Band Saw and/or Tabletop Drill Press?
I’ve also played around with getting portable versions of various machines for use in our pits, but I also know that typically those are probably much smaller and lower quality than what we’d want in the shop.
This throatless shear can cut up to 16 gauge mild steel, at least 1/16" Al and polycarb up to 1/8" thick. One person operates the handle. A second person pushes the material into the shear and “steers”. With a bit of practice, you can make straight cuts as well as curved cuts. It takes up much less room and cost way less than a typical sheetmetalshear.
I have the Wiss offset snips, left and right I find them easier to use on long cuts than the typical aviation snips
Get the heaviest table top drill press from Harbor Freight. Check for wobble in the quill (the part that goes up and down). Unless you are getting a real professional grade one, the other brands like Craftsman and the ones from the big box stores are all about the same.
Get the heaviest metal cutting, tabletop bandsaw from Harbor Freight. Purchase a Lennox brand bimetal blade and throw away the blade that comes with the saw.
Use the 20% off coupons for the Harbor Freight stuff. Have several people go so you can buy it all on the same trip.
Any tool will perform poorly if not properly adjusted. Both of your saws will deliver amazing results if someone sets them up properly. (Hint: Learn how, then do it).
A horizontal saw cutting at an angle is a setup problem.
Harbor Freight is universally junk. Fine for occasional use, or if you need to use a tool only once, and can accept brekage on occasion.
Grizzly is a definite step up from there. Good tools at a price point. Sears/Craftsman is about the same.
Then there are the name brands, like Delta: Expensive but they last forever.
The issue is that because both saws are primarily used by other, unaffiliated classes, we have no control over what they do with them the 95% of the time we’re not using them. We have adjusted them before only to come back a few days later and have them out of alignment again.
Thanks for brand break-down, that’s what I was looking for.
Incidentally, after a bit of searching I came across a Delta band saw that’s the same price (after shipping) and similar specs to this Grizzly band saw. Thoughts?
I have not had one of these, but looking at the web page, this appears to be a band saw for cutting wood, not metals. I am also in the market for a bandsaw for FRC, and dismissed this one quickly for that reason.
As a followup, since people had been recommending getting a Mill, I figured I’d share this little addition to our shop that was delivered the other day:
We’ve bought a few things from Grizzly in the past year or so. So far it has been really good for us.
Horizontal Bandsaw: http://www.grizzly.com/products/5-x-6-Metal-Cutting-Bandsaw-w-Swivel-Head/G9742
This has been our go-to tool for cutting metal in the shop. At some point we even stacked up 12 pieces of 1/4" x 4" aluminum to cut on this and it ate it all up. The key to having it work well is tramming it to 90-degrees and setting up the tension of the blade properly. We even had new students train on it and have only broken 1 band over the course of the season, which is really good compared to our old JET bandsaws.
Vertical Bandsaw: http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-2-HP-Bandsaw-Anniversary-Edition/G0513ANV
This is a wood bandsaw but will do really well for Aluminum and Polycarb with a metal blade. We used it to cut everything from bumper panels out of plywood to polycarbonate prototypes and even some 1/4" aluminum. The key to this tool is setting it up right. We also put it on a dolly so we can pull it away from the wall when we want to do big sheets.
Lathe: http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Variable-Speed-Lathe/G0752
Yes, we bought a lathe from Grizzly. Its OK, works well enough for what we want to do. The tailstock is garbage, but everything else does what it is supposed to. We used it to make fastener-free driveshafts out of Hex shaft, bushings, wheel hubs and to pocket and bore out drive pulleys. Overall its a aggressively mediocre tool. I wish we bought the one that has a DRO, but it was out of stock at the time.
12" Slip Roll: http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Slip-Roll/T10727
This was honestly pretty garbage. It gets hung up and is really poorly designed. Super frustrating to use, but if you are patient it will yield an OK part.
I can’t say too much about how they will last over a long period of time, but these machines **seem **like they will last 5-ish years, at which point the team will be looking for an upgrade anyway.
It looks similar to this Craftsman bandsaw. We have the craftsman version and it has been solid tool for the past 3 seasons. We like it because we can take it with us to events. We have a larger Grizzly bandsaw as well in the shop.
We use I think the cheapest band saw from Home Depot while not the top of the line, as long as you get the right blade for it and use cutting fluid, it will cut through aluminum like butter. (Keeping the blade in a healthy condition and training students to treat the blade with care makes a huge difference) Although there are plenty of other options for cutting fluid we generally use WD-40. We spray the surface of the material before we start cutting and then spray more as needed. We also use a 10TPI 3/8" wide blade that has worked great for cutting up to 1/4" aluminum.
