Hey teams. just wondering where you find the sweet spot as far as the height of your shooter tower. First, Are you using a spinning turret or a tower with a spinning shooter?. How many degrees does it turn, if it does at all? Finally, how tall are you guys making your tower? I figure it doesnt need to be more than a foot of tower space, but then again maybe some people are storing balls in the tower. What do you guys think?
Our shooter axel is 50 inches from the ground. Not sure if there is a sweet spot. We are tall so it’s harder block our shots. Shooter has tiltbut no turret.
More details at 2012.discobots.org. Link to our daily log is at the bottom of the page.
We put ours at 24" to make balancing and going over the barrier easier. If we go to the back of the key, we can’t be blocked and we saw no reason to shoot from anywhere else.
How do you figure?
The trajectory that we fire at ensures that the ball is above 60" by the time it hits the front of the key.
Front being defined as the part closest to the baskets.
We’ll do it one better: The ball is above 60" by the time it reaches the vertical projection of our bumper. If we’re touching the key, no reasonable defense strategy is going to see an opposing robot “bump” us, so we hope that’ll do.
Our shooter’s top is around 50" as well.
An opposing robot is allowed to be on your key (and block your shot, if your shooter is low). They receive a foul if they contact you while you’re on the key.
I guess you could assume that no other robots will try to block you while you’re on the key, but that may or may not be a valid assumption.
In my opinion this is a pretty safe bet, they could just drive forward quickly and they’d get the foul. In fact, tempting opposing robots to sit in front of you in the key could be an even better scoring strategy than sinking baskets :yikes:.
Hey teams. just wondering where you find the sweet spot as far as the height of your shooter tower. First, Are you using a spinning turret or a tower with a spinning shooter?we have a spinnining robot. How many degrees does it turn, if it does at all?it can turn 360 Finally, how tall are you guys making your tower?we will not have a “tower” I figure it doesnt need to be more than a foot of tower space, but then again maybe some people are storing balls in the tower. What do you guys think?i think your robot will fall over the first time you shoot a ball.
why are you so obsessed with spinning towers?
We’re avoiding a turret because we’d heard that during the 2006 competition, drivers would get confused by the driving chassis and turret turning independently (using tracking systems). It’s also more complication that is not necessarily needed.
I think the main danger with towers is that they can whip around on the bridge, when crossing the barrier, or when your robot is hit by other robots (and can then break off without a significant amount of bracing). They also alter the center of gravity quite a lot. While you may not fall over when shooting, a robot with a tower possibly may when crossing over the barrier (especially when hit by another robot) or more likely, when crossing the bridge.
Our shooter is about 28-30in high right now. We’ve configured the shooter so that it can’t be blocked by other robots. It is still vulnerable to being rammed.
We’re aiming to be able to shoot from several places on the field.
Our shooter is a one wheel design with the axle mounted at 36 inches high. We’re using a small amount of vertical space plus the angled space from the front of the bot to the back (Where our shooter is located) to store the balls.
Doesnt most teams have one student driving the robot and the other working the controls?
FIRST Team 1296 is at 52" - also seems safe to me
If they do try this, we can drive forward and bump them, under no penalty to us, and a three point penalty to them.
I’m still not clear on the whole rule thing about that…but I kinda think you have a good approach, we might plan on making our shooter sit a bit lower, mainly to help with the CG thing. It looks like it won’t lose us much.
Not so much. If you do this intentionally exploiting G44’s exception for G28, it’s 9 points for them when you get a technical foul under G45.
I think the intent of the rule is pretty clear, as stated in [G28]
[G28]
Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.This rule applied at all times, no matter who initiates the contact, see [G44].
Emphasis mine. The GDC seems to have thought of this eventuality and even made a rule for it. As for [G45]/[G44]
[G44]
Generally, a rule violation by an Alliance that was directly caused by actions of the opposing Alliance will not be penalized. Rule [G28] is an exception to this rule.
[G45]
Strategies exploiting Rule [G44] are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not allowed.
Violation: Technical-Foul and Red Card
Emphasis mine.
Our strategy is shooting, they are interfering with our strategy, and they are liable for the penalty if they intrude upon the key. If our strategy was to bait them into the key then sting them with a penalty, that would be exploiting the exception as described in [G44]. However, that is not it.
Is my analysis sound?
I’m not sure if your first assertion was questioning G45’s applicability to G28, but if it was:
If not, I like the “strategy” distinction. If the motion of contact itself (moving to the front of the key) was part of your original shooting strategy, I’d agree with you. But if you’re implying that you’d deliberately bump them to earn the foul rather than to physically shoot, I’d contest that this is a separate (if affiliated) strategy. I won’t claim to red card you for it, but you may want to seek further clarification. I’ll also point out tangentially, that the current litmus test for technical fouling with regards to intentionality is essentially just repetition.
Good thought.
Sorry to continue to derail this thread.
My strategy is to have a shot that is not blocked. In order to accomplish this, I’m going to shove any robots out of my way until the shot is clear. If, during my shoving, an oppenent is in the key, then that is a three point penalty on them. I don’t intend to give them penalties, but I do intend to guarantee an unblocked shot.