Geez, I’m never the 1st one to notice this.
http://www2.usfirst.org/2007comp/Updates/2007%20Team%20Update%2016.pdf
There’s not much too it, in terms of the number of sentences. But, I’ll leave you to determine how this update inpacts your team.
BEN
No grinding wheels, bandsaws, or drill presses in the pits…
I’d like FIRST to explain that one
w00t to changing the algorithm
no machine shop for buzz either 
It also says no mobile machine shops. This is shocking as the machine shop at VCU took hours to cut a piece of lexan into a rectangle for us and it was horribly not straight. I think mobile shops like what the Circuit Runners had are nice even though I didnt get to see it.
Guess 90% of us own machine shops. I don’t understand the why we can’t have a drill press or bands saw. In past years I had heart ache with the grinding wheel part.
This is a change from previous years. For several years now there has been a rule (<R21> this year) against “private” on-site non-FIRST machine shops or large power tools; but FIRST has allowed teams to use such resources if they make them available to all teams. This year such things are not being allowed at all – I think the reason has to do with FIRST’s liability coverage. Translated: FIRST is vulnerable to opportunistic lawyers if they allow us to use potentially dangerous tools at their events.
I’m not a big fan of this change, but if FIRST says they need to make it then I am not going to challenge them. The shop facilities provided at every FRC event I have attended have been excellent.
At St. Louis last Thursday I had the honor of telling Paul Copioli that the Thunderchickens’ band saw, which they have allowed other teams to use at FRC events for many years, would have to be shut down. Needless to say Paul was not happy with the decision, either; but he’s a gracious professional and he complied with FIRST’s direction.
So that’s why we seemed to go against that one robot in every match…
Well I can understand why FIRST banned drill presses and bandsaws in the pits, as they are 2 very dangerous machines and in the pits there isn’t really enough space available to operate them safely. I am also glad to hear that FIRST is working on the algorithm for the scheduling.
The only obvious answer in for insurance purposes. SOME Americans live for lawsuits. FIRST is covering their bases since they bear ultimate responsibility as promoter. They would be the FIRST to be sued, along with the venue where it happened, along with the Team that loaned the tool, along with the Fast Food restuarant that served up the too hot coffee that spilled on the machinist who lost control of the grinder, that took off the finger, that hit some one else in the eye, that caused that person to bump the person operating the bandsaw:, which sliced into the arm…You get the point?:ahh:
Team 1598 had a bandsaw in the pits at VCU anc cut a lot of parts for a lot of teams. John Henderson spent hours cutting for others. The safety inspectors were there while we were using it and said nothing to us. I feel bad that we were breaking a rule that I was not aware of. We will not use it again.
I would argue circular saws and sawz-alls are more dangerous. And shoot, a hand drill is often more dangerous.
But, I do understand the need to do this. I guess it all just goes back to the fact that you need to finish your robot before it goes in the crate.
You might convince me of not being able to bring a bandsaw, although I believe that a bandsaw it safer than the alternatives teams will end up using.
But no drill press?
We were not allowed to use our bandsaw at Purdue last year.
So, where is FIRST going to draw the line?
What makes a band saw or drill press more dangerous than a 20,000rpm Dremel tool, a Sawz-all, or even a hand drill? (Ever try using a hole saw with a hand drill?) What about soldering guns, or those deadly 12V 18amp-hr batteries? A lot of teams rely on being able to build/fix/modify their robot on-site with tools they bring, because they ran out of time during the build period. Had we known that “Machine Shops” were not allowed at competitions, I think many teams would rethink their designs and how much they chose to accomplish. Granted, there is A machine shop on-site, which requires a drawing and (in my experience) a long wait. However, quick and dirty does not apply here.
Finally, how does this compare with non-competing teams who utilize the “Fix-it Window?” These teams have a distinct advantage of being able to use all of their tools. How is this fair?
I understand that the Insurance Companies and lawyers are probably the ones behind these rules. But, if FIRST wants to grow this program and reduce costs to the teams, they’re going to have to change the way we operate. Maybe it’s time we all gave VEX a longer look.
I’d be very interested to know how much of my registration fee is going to pay for insurance at the events.
BEN
Ben,
I completely agree with you. I can show several instances where a hand drill is more dangerous than a drill press. So what is next, outlaw all power tools? And I am sure I can find many instances where a sawzall is MUCH more dangeraous than a bandsaw. The funny part is that we have brought a very small band saw, drill press and lathe to every previous competition and 90% of it use was to help other teams.
Raul
The lion’s share (72%) of FIRST’s budget, $14 million last year, went to putting on FRC events. This was only partly (79%) offset by the $11 million in registration fees they took in. The rest (21%) was covered by sponsors.
I wouldn’t know how much of the $14 million went to insurance premiums but I’ll bet it was more than any of us would like. Even so, I doubt it was more than 21% of the cost. So it is unlikely that ANY of our registration fees went to cover insurance – that was part of the sponsors’ share.
Great post richard…
Is there any way one can find out what % of that 14mil was acutally posted or spent on Inssurance?
The main reason i ask is because as everyone knows, you do sign waivers before you can participate at ANY FIRST competition.
yeah really. people use our drill press all the time. and so do we. that’s upsetting.
I am trying to figure out how to say this delicately but I can’t so I am just going to say it.
Is this the beginning of the end for FIRST? Are the lawyers going to now ruin FIRST just like everything else in this Country? I understand that safety is of utmost importance to FIRST as it should be but doesn’t this just sort of go against the whole spirit of FIRST? We are in a competition after all. We are supposed to overcome problems and damage in the heat of battle. We are supposed to work together for the betterment of all. Now we are supposed to do it without power tools? I agree. Where are they (FIRST) going to draw the line. Maybe I can understand the whole no welding in the pits due to fire safety issue but why is a stationary drill press any more dangerous than a handheld cordless one? Why is a band saw any more dangerous than a reciprocating saw? Are we going to get another update next week that now outlaws cordless drills, reciprocating saws or any other power tools?
I HATE LAWYERS! There, I said it. :mad: