Hey all. This is my first post on this platform, so forgive me if this is already a discussion, but the 2019 FRC game seems to heavily rely on the camera. My team has used Cameras in the past (for 2018) and we found that they work only some of the time. Sometimes they’d show up on our dashboard, and other times they wouldn’t show as an option entirely. Can anybody suggest what they’ve used as a camera setup to get it working more reliably?
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My team has used USB cameras the whole time I’ve been on it (and we’ve have had the same issues as you), but I’ve heard that ethernet cameras are much more reliable
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What programming language? Also, you might consider using a low-cost coprocessor such as a Raspberry Pi to host your USB cameras instead of using just the RoboRio. Someone may have even created a Raspberry Pi image to make it easy.
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we use Java. and yes. I’ve heard of something like that. looks amazing. how exactly would this work?
yup. I’ve heard of those. do you guys have an experience with those? new tech for me
It might be better to discuss in the other thread, but the basic idea with a coprocessor is you put it on the robot, power it from either a USB battery pack (allowed by the rules) or VRM, and it plugs into the second Ethernet port on the Radio and you plug the USB camera into it. Since it’s on the same Ethernet segment as the robot and DS, the coprocessor can talk to both the RoboRIO and the DS.
I’d also like to hear more details about the issues you were seeing last year. What dashboard were you using?
Sorry about these weird replies. I’m getting the hang of these messages… anyways. We were using the default dashboard (it comes up as PC dashboard). It had all sorts of tabs including two for cameras. It was a dropdown and sometimes we saw our option listed and other times we did not
Yeah, I saw that behavior occasionally last year with the LabView default dashboard as well. I would recommend you try Shuffleboard this year as an alternative dashboard; you don’t have to select the camera each time, it remembers what it connected to before.
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this looks neat! thanks! is there anything special I should know about shuffleboard? Also, I’ll look into the Pi cam as well. What Pi do you suggest we use (and any camera suggestions)? Would the interface be the same in the dashboard for that? Our team is also on a somewhat low budget just to keep in mind
Either a Pi 3 model B or Pi 3 model B+ will work. The interface is the same in the dashboard with FRCVision, as it ties into the NetworkTables system to let the dashboard know where the camera is. Camera wise you might consider the Pi Camera; the Microsoft LifeCam 3000 is a decent low-cost choice as well.
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For simple driver video, it is hard to beat the simplicity and reliability of an Axis M1011 or similar viewed in a web browser on the DS laptop. No code or processing on the RoboRio, no interaction with the FRC DS. With the camera itself properly configured, performance is excellent.
We used to use Axis cameras, but switched to USB web cameras a couple of years ago because of size / cost. I might have to encourage them to look back into Axis cameras though with the new bandwidth caps.
so a wireless alternative? how does this work? through wifi/bluetooth? we view this from the web? What kind of bandwidth can I expect in terms for quality. How much do they cost?
Nah, Axis cameras are just IP cameras. Instead of requiring another device like a Raspberry Pi to stream the video feed, they stream on their own. It also helps that they are generally good cameras.
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last year we used a grandstream gvx3500 (http://www.grandstream.com/products/physical-security/ip-video-encoders/decoders/product/gxv3500)
with an analog camera…
This year we’re looking at CameraServer and the PI. We’ve got 4 cameras on the PI
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As Ygr said, no wireless (not legal) just plug into the 2nd radio port (or switch if you add one). The camera is its own device with its own IP address. Bring up a web browser on the DS laptop, enter that IP address in the browser address bar, and the video appears*.
There are ways to feed the Axis video through the RoboRio and integrate the video into the FRC DS control application, but the other way is IMO simpler and safer.
*some simple camera configuration required.
There are some dos and don’ts for powering the camera if you get serious about this option.
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wow okay. so they’re connected via ethernet port. is it the RJ45 plug on the other side of the cable? or is this using the Pi attached via ethernet (so usb for the camera). how would I get the IP address?
The Axis M1011 and similar are network cameras, so no Pi or USB involved. Rather than play Q&A on details you can see their manual here: https://www.axis.com/files/manuals/um_m10_46940_en_1203.pdf.
One thing to note is that the M1011, the last model I used, is no longer current. I’m sure they have a successor, but you can also pick up 1011s or similar on Ebay or some such. The last couple I bought I paid under $50 for, but they’re pretty plentiful at $100 or so.
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amazing! last question about this camera. can only one be used on the robot? or is there an ethernet splitter out there?
An “ethernet splitter” is generally called a network hub or switch. We like this one: https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Gigabit-Ethernet-Unmanaged-1000Mbps/dp/B00KFD0SMC
Since you asked, yes, you can use several network cameras. We’ve run as many as four.