So after much discussion the rules have somewhat changed in a team update regarding material and what can be on ropes. It seems as though the theory behind “velcro” or velcro-like materials are not illegal, however what they are comprised of and how you attach them to your rope can be. From reading the rules it seems like you can just sew on your velcro onto something like a ratchet strap. That being said, the rules refer to manufacturer’s implemented glue or material that is not woven being illegal.
If anyone can help clarify this at all or direct me to a chain store where we can buy some legal velcro we can sew on that would be great!
Any suggestions here would be guesses, as it is up to the inspector and LRI at your event to determine, and the Q&A will not take this question far enough to give a positive answer.
As a simple alternative, many ropes have the fibers loose enough that Velcro hooks on the drum will snag them just fine.
No need to guess and then suggest a confining design. Simply point to the Q&A. Most LRI’s will be well-versed in what is legal and illegal. Compliance with I04 is pretty easy - the inspection checklist is literally right there in that rule.
@OP:
- This Q&A response says (paraphrased) “yep, you can use Velcro for the entire rope if it doesn’t have adhesive” FIRST FRC Q&A System
- This Q&A response clarifies that hook-and-loop material can be used anywhere along the rope, as if Q&A 6 wasn’t clear enough: FIRST FRC Q&A System
- Velcro plastic is
included in the definition of “fibrous” material to comply with I04: FIRST FRC Q&A System - This Q&A says that manufacturer-applied coatings on top of the hook and loop material do not make the material illegal: FIRST FRC Q&A System
A derived conclusion is that if you want to attach the Velcro to a stronger rope core, sew it in using a non-metalic thread. Just make sure the total diameter never exceeds 1", and otherwise complies with I04. An inspector may want any literature & other information you have about the hook-and-loop material, so be sure to bring that.
As far as suppliers - use the search at the top of the forums. I’ve seen a few “threads” with links to suppliers of hook-and-loop material that doesn’t have adhesive.
From I04:
“D. consist entirely of (except for dye or adhesive applied by the VENDOR as part of the normal manufacturing process for a COTS item and no longer tacky, e.g. a “binder coat”) flexible, non-metallic fibers sewn, twisted, tied, woven, knitted, crocheted, intertwined, or braided together except for the last 4 in. (~10 cm) of any cut end (E) which may be whipped (with material that is flexible and non-metallic) or fused only to prevent fraying.”
From Velcro website: first paragraph is relevant re: “binder coat”
Reading this paragraph makes it clear that “binder coat” is not the same as “adhesive backing”. A “binder coat” is common to both sew-on and adhesive-backed woven Velcro.
The words “no longer tacky” only have meaning if interpreted to eliminate adhesive-backed woven Velcro from being part of a team supplied rope.
My .02, if the Velcro has an adhesive backing, i.e. is sticky, do not use it. Get yourself some sew-on Velcro and put your sewing, twisting, tying, weaving, knitting, crocheting, intertwining or braiding skills to work…
Originally we were under the impression that we had to make the entire rope uniform. So we made this:
After reading the links posted above, I think we can just add 12 inches of velcro to a desired area of the rope and call it a day… Would you guys say it is safe to sew velcro to only a portion of the strap/ section of rope? I feel like we are beating the dead horse here… but looking for some input from the community.
So did they let you use your “velcro” rope or have you been to your first competition yet?
Team 181 was one of the notable “velcro-rope” bots at Waterbury.
We were able to pass with three different ropes, all made up of webbing with velcro sewn to the bottom section of it.
We used strap/webbing with loop side velcro sewn to it in our first event this weekend. There were no issues with inspection. Many other teams did the same.
A word of caution about using a 1" wide strap - we had issues with our climber binding up when the strap traveled to and over the end cap of the drum/spool. A 1" strap will travel 1" to the left or right with each revolution of the winch drum/spool. When it gets to the end it will begin to build on itself. If your end cap’s diameter is too small, it will jump over it and mess up your climb.
Our team noticed this problem early on and designed a dog bone shaped spool to prevent it from happening. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Ours jumped off once, but it wasn’t a big deal. Sure, the climb was much slower, but the torque from the robot’s weight was actually smaller on a 1/2" hex shaft. We successfully climbed, though slower.
Do you mind sharing what type of webbing you used? We used a regular ratchet strap from Home Depot, but are starting to get worried about our rope snapping after seeing some of the falls and threads about that problem. Did you use any sheath to protect the rope from the davit?
We are using this as our rope.
https://www.amazon.com/BlueWater-Tubular-Climb-Spec-Webbing-30/dp/B00183IO24