What about not having champs / worlds?

Hear me out, where in high school sports does a team from New England play a team from California? If we really want to get FRC into every school then the travel burden of flying around the world or across the country makes it hard for schools to sell to schools boards etc. It is inherently non-equitable and a large expense. Most states have a state championship level and that is the highest you would go. FIRST could do that as districts.

This is mostly just a thought exercise I had and don’t really like the idea. Just figured I would share and see if anyone else has ever though the same thing?



I respect your opinion, but this is a really bad take.


What is the advantage of not having champs over having champs and some teams not going/being able to go?


Usually Vegas.

I don’t want FRC in every school.


The more important question.
When will all states/regions have a district championship event ?

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It’s not like every team is going to Champs though. If it were a requirement to always fly to Houston or wherever, than ya, totally unfeasible for growth. But the idea (regardless if that’s actually how it plays out…) is that only the best of the best attend/compete. All levels of play prior to champs is relatively local in comparison.


No other high school sport has a national governing body that can run a national or world championship event. You don’t think high school baseball champions from California would like to see how they would do against those from New York?

FRC also has the issue that most teams only get two “games” (events) a season. In most other high school sports, playing every few days is common, but in FIRST, the only way to get more play time that gets you anywhere is either to advance or drop $3000 on an extra Regional.

This kinda begs the question…why not both? Don’t we really already have both? Accepting an invitation to the world championship isn’t mandatory.


Agreed. If not true districts, at least a second-tier level like a DCMP that non-district teams qualify for based on district-like points. Then Worlds will truly be the best of the best.

The nice thing about this perspective is that if you don’t want to go to Champs, you can just decline the bid.

I do agree in principle with moving towards districts, with an intermediate universal points system though, which could potentially enable more non-Championship local events such as state championships.

Nah, hear me out on this.

What about not having World Championships? What would your team lose? What would it gain?

These are important questions to be asking regularly at all levels of this program.

On a team by team basis it helps drive decisions and priorities. On a regional/district perspective it should be driving advancement support. And at a program perspective the capstone events are major undertakings and the value of them should be understood to ensure the prioritization of resources is correct…

Basically, I highly recommend regularly asking the question of “what if we cut X” in most things - it helps you focus and understand why things are being done or if they need to be done.


The championship exists because Manchester sees more value in having it than not, and very recently at least 800 FRC teams agreed with them so much that they were willing to directly give Manchester $4 million and exercise a similar economic impact to the host cities’ economy. That’s the central part of the equation.


I’m most familiar with running sports, and a national level competition certainly is “a thing” at the high school level. NikeCrossNationals.com - Nike Cross Nationals Official Site - NXN

The top individuals and teams from our state (MN) regularly compete in this and, like FRC, no team is obligated to attend the event if they qualify.

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I am not against this theoretical idea, I gave you a heart react. I can’t think of an analog in any high school activities to FRC. Sometimes this is an asset, and sometimes not


Let’s be honest, most high school sports cost way more to the school than FRC does, just, high schools are willing to pay for sports.


I think we’d lose a pretty big aspirational goal. In the current model, DCMP is not an excessively difficult event to place in. It is difficult to win, but realistically almost all teams will be disappointed if their goal is to win DCMP; much less so if their goal is to attend champs.

Having a big spectacle event is important. Right now, DCMP is not that (in my very limited opinion, having only been to ONT and NE DCMPs). FIM may be at that level, but not every region is as large as FIM.

Why is it important? Well, the “I” in FIRST stands for inspiration; I can say with certainty that myself and many of my students have been inspired by attending the world championship in previous years.

Why do we have to be like sports? There are definitely some things to take from & learn from traditional sports programs. But we do not need to blindly copy their structure.


Why not, out of curiosity?

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A bad FRC team can turn more kids away from STEM than the lack of an FRC team.


I’m not sure I understand how this argument plays out.

Appreciate this shifting of the Overton window towards #nochamps, even if it remains extremely unpopular!

My previous notes on this:

Instead of all 8 of these bowls being organized by PDOs, maybe 2 of them would be organized by HQ… but those two Manchester-run bowls wouldn’t be more official or anything.

I’ll say that in 2023, Triple Helix is in the mood to travel… We’d put in our preference for the Silicon Valley Bowl or something. And then maybe the Western Europe Bowl in 2024?