What are Teams Thinking for Multi-Climbs

Hi there,

My team has really been looking at strategy and we have come to think that we should pursue being able to allow other robots to climb with us. This is based on our want to be in a picking position at our regionals. We are doing a taller robot because of doing the scale so a ramp seems to be out. What is the general direction teams are moving in to do dual or triple climbs?

Thank you!

There are other threads out there, so look there for some inspiration.

You still can have a ramp, have it folded vertically during match and let it down during end game. Other designs include having a bar stick out from your robot (imitating what the field climb bar is) or have a spot for a second robot to sit (on your bot), and climb with them yourself. Remember, you only need 2 direct climbs, since levitate can help with 3rd climb.

Here is team 320’s Ri3D build:

We did it in three days, can’t wait to see what you come up with in six and a half weeks!

If you want a good folding ramp idea, check out 71 from 2007, they were Einstein finalists, and had ramps that folded out to support two other robots.

I believe to get the ramps (like Team 71 used in 2007) to a plateau of say 10" high (assuming bumpers at least 2" up from the bottom of the wheels of the partners bots), the slope would be too steep for a 6" wheeled robot to navigate without getting high centered. Remember the ramps would need to be on/supported by the platform and not touching the playing field carpet to be considered a climb.

A ramp is probably out because our design for cube delivery to the scale makes out bot pretty tall. The better option would probably something that allows us to get the two climbs needed for a ranking point by pulling someone else with us or making space for a second climber if that isn’t possible.

Hint: don’t overbuild your robot; being top-heavy to support the weight of your whole robot isn’t a great tradeoff. Hint hint: don’t assume that you’ll be able to lift any other bots, or that they will be built to effectively hold yours. Every team builds and designs so differently that compatibility is far from guaranteed. Think of ways that you can climb without preventing others from doing the same.

461 had very similar ramps in 2007… and both they and 71 saw them fail at the worst possible time. For 461, this was Finals 3 at Boilermaker Regional. For 71, this was Finals 2 on Einstein. Both were passively sprung, and both had 1 side jam when deployed, preventing one scale, which caused them to lose the match.

Reliability counts. Inconsistency makes great robots lose events. Murphy’s law knows no bounds.

Can you point to where in the rules it says you cannot touch the field carpet?

There are four approaches here worth considering:

  1. Ignore the climb. Win your qualification matches with your scale scoring mechanism and smart match play. Get ranking points during auto. Pick a team with double ramps
  2. Have a simple climber built into your scale scoring mechanism that doesn’t actively allow other teams to climb with you. Pick either a ramp bot or a climber that does accomodate other climbers
  3. Climb on the sides/corners of the rung to allow for other robots to climb on the face and other side/corner, or lift yourself above the bar so other robots can climb under you
  4. Have a “rung on your robot” or some other creative climbing solution to allow other robots to climb you if you’re already up

CLIMBING
For each ROBOT** fully supported by the SCALE** (either directly or transitively) with BUMPERS fully above the BRICKS at T=0, not in direct contact with their PLATFORM, and not at all in the opponent’s PLATFORM ZONE

Carpet cannot bear any load… or transitive climbs will be invalidated IMO

We’ve been considering many different designs for a ramp, but everything ends up coming back to this. In all seriousness, there are a couple things to consider when creating ramp designs. Make sure they can accommodate most if not all robot designs (max robot frame of 28" x 33", 34.5" x 39.5" with bumpers). If this is not the case, it will severely hinder your ability to achieve the 1 ranking point in many matches. In addition, if you are not able to address this engineering challenge, it might be a good idea to have a ramp that has the ability to only deploy on one side. This would allow a robot that doesn’t have the capability of safely climbing your ramp to climb on the rung if it has the capability to do so. If you only have the ability to deploy both sides at once, you may be blocking access for an alliance member to climb on the rung. Besides all this, it would be very nice to have your ramp match the angle of the ramp on the platform, but through geometric analysis you may find that this is harder (in terms of getting 2 robot safely on to a raised platform) than it seems. Good Luck!

I wonder if any teams are considering yet another alternative: taking another robot for a ride

???

Based off of the everybot post, looks like 118 is looking to pick up robots this year. It is certainly possible to design something to lift the weight, creating a stable platform that wont drop, cause the alliance member to fall off will be the hard part (at least in my opinion).

[/li]
Or as we’re calling it: the “Buddy Bar”.

Is it true per Team Update 1 that you may not ramp. Team update 1 says you cannot be touching the ramp when you are done climbing. Is that correct? I understand your team will not have to worry about that anyways, just trying to clear it up.

Consider a couple things before doing a ramp:

The top of the platform is 104" in wide
As Roboshant pointed out, the smallest full-size robot is 34.5" wide with bumpers. Three robots like that is 103.5" which does not leave much room for a double ramp in even the best scenario.

If you’re planning on staying on the ground, you better be able to lift both robots otherwise you’re merely relying on cooperation to lift someone in your place.

At lower competitions lifting two robots in your place will be useful as a majority of bots will have a hard time climbing. Once you start getting higher up, at least one other robot should be able to climb, which goes back to you trying to cooperate to lift someone in your place.

I do like the idea that if you can lift 240 lbs SAFELY and RELIABLY every time (yourself and one other), then you will be valuable even at higher levels. This is one of those things I really only expect from a power-house team.

It actually says “platform”. Even if it said ramp, it would mean the field ramp, not another player.

I know one team that was considering using 4 pistons to just lift their robot up. This ruling kills that idea.

Note that this should be closer to 300-310, if you account for batteries (~13lbs) and bumpers (max 20lbs) it gives you a robot weight of about 153lbs.

Thanks for the correction, I did forget that not everything is weighed for the 120 lb limit.