What are Teams Thinking for Multi-Climbs

FIRST General Forum
#21

Keep in mind the relative point value of having a climb-assist mechanism.

It will likely be a special feature that not many others have which will make for a good elim pick, but regarding mechanism priority it may fall low on the totem pole. Anything more complex then a ramp will require significant design time, space allocation, weight etc. FRC end-games often have a climbing element of some sort, most teams will have a working hoist by mid-season.

Regarding the climbing device, remember that if you can combine two features into one mechanism you’ll save a lot of time and space.

#22

I think any effective ramp (that completes the criteria I presented in the my previous post) will be a lot more complex than teams think (especially considering 3 robots at max size are already a tight fit on the platform) This is completely based off of our prototyping and geometric analysis in CAD, although teams always surprise me with what they manage to come up with. If certain criteria are not met in a ramp design, the effectiveness of such ramp will be very limited (also completely dependent on alliance partners). Honestly, I think that picking up another team’s bot will be a lot more feasible and effective for teams with good engineering and machining capabilities.

#23

I’m guessing that the most successful Face the Boss strategies will be one robot to climb the rung pretty high up (and thus out of the way) while another robot deploys a ramp for a third to get on, plus levitate. Second-most will be double-ramps (or double-forklifts with outrigger stabilizers like 250(?) in 2007).

Attempts of multiple robots climbing the rung at the same time will be exceedingly rare, and successes rarer still.

We’ll see if I’m right as the game plays out.

#24

Power house teams aren’t looking to be “valuable”, they are looking at the value of other teams :slight_smile:

If you can reliably take another robot for a ride, after controlling the scale all match, then you’ll probably have your pick of other teams come alliance selection time

#25

Most prevalant, probably.
I suspect some form of cheesecake hook and bar mounted on two sides of a strong climber will allow one robot to hoist the entire alliance up in high levels of play. There’s no need to power the attachment devices, so long as they can spring outside of the frame perimeter at the start of the match. A well designed cheesecake for two alliance partners to be able to hook onto the main climber will eventually become the meta of a strong alliance.

Each cube will become incredibly valuable, the more an alliance can put on the scale against their opponent’s the better they will do. Sacrificing 3 to “lift” a robot won’t be a big deal in low-mid play but I think it may be the deciding factor in high level play.

#26

I believe the team update eliminates this option since your robot cannot be in contact with the platform to be considered climbing. The other robot will be valid, but even if you climb, your ramp is on the platform.

Unless you mean they climb on your ramp, then you climb with both bots?

Power house teams aren’t looking to be “valuable”, they are looking at the value of other teams

If you can reliably take another robot for a ride, after controlling the scale all match, then you’ll probably have your pick of other teams come alliance selection time

100% agree. What I meant is that creating a lift that another team will trust is no small feat. We’ve seen how hard it is for most to lift themselves which is a known variable to them. Now try to include someone else’s robot that you haven’t seen before.

#27

I like it.

@Fields I think you’re reading the update incorrectly.

I wonder if any teams are considering yet another alternative: taking another robot for a ride

I was bundling that into #4, although I see how that could be considered a different approach altogether.

#28

“For each ROBOT fully supported by the SCALE
(either directly or transitively) with BUMPERS fully
above the BRICKS at T=0, not in direct contact with
their PLATFORM, and not at all in the opponent’s
PLATFORM ZONE”

Another robot would be a valid climb, but your ramp is on the platform, so your climb wouldn’t count. How am I mistaken?

#29

Look at how levitate is applied to a robot…

#30

OK, I see what you mean by using the bonus, but this does not change anything I said about a ramp. Either you climb and your alliance uses levitate on the third bot or they climb your ramp and they levitate you.

If you build a ramp bot you guarantee that levitate must be used.

Going back in the thread I see that I miswrote and said “levitate” instead of climb.
Will correct that.

#31

Correct. I believe that the most common successful Face the Boss (90 points + 1 RP) will consist of:

  1. A robot that actually climbs the rung and is both off the ground and not in contact with either the PLATFORM or other robots,
  2. A robot that is on top of another robot (let’s call it the “ramp bot”), so it is off the ground and not in contact with the PLATFORM, and
  3. The ramp bot, which is on the PLATFORM but counts as having climbed due to the Levitate Power Up.
#32

I think you are on the right track but bare in mind that you technically can get away with 1 ramp bot and 2 robots that are able to drive on said ramp bot with levitate being played. This is one scenario we are pursuing in prototyping.

#33

Does the robot have to be on the platform to use Levitate?
I don’t remember anything saying that it does. If not, you just opened a lot of space for the other two bots.

#34

Actually, incorrect. There will be several teams with what we’ve began calling the “iron cross.”

#35

No, it does not. Levitate can be activated at any time during the match. See 4.3

#36

Iron Cross sounds amazing, but I wager will be so rare as to merit special mention in CD when and if it ever happens successfully. Maybe once in the entire season, I think.

#37

our team is building a lift that carries all three robots at once.

#38

Yes, bringing both robots up along with yours will be the smartest way to do it, because you can get the entire alliance a climb without using cubes on levitate. Rather than having them park on top of your robot have them latch on the side, then make your ascent.
No alliance without a robot that can execute this will make Einstein.

I do wonder how slow it will be though since its going to need a lot of gearing.

#39

I do wonder how slow it will be though since its going to need a lot of gearing.

We are using a 6 cim shifter drivetrain with PTOs on each side to power the climber, so pretty fast, and it still will have enough torque

#40

Keep in mind as you attempt to lift other robots that the weight limit does not include bumpers or battery which together will add around 20 pounds to the weight of a robot bringing the grand total you should safely be able to support if you are taking a partner up with you to 280 pounds, plus a little to account for the acceleration you have to do to get moving upward.