What is incidental contact?

Here is my problem after viewing several photos of this years robots.

Team A builds a strong and fast robot that can go under the bar.

Team B builds a robot that can block the hill and block the passage under the rails at the same time.

If team A tries to go over the hill and damages team B, it is incidental contact.

Does the same hold true for team A crashing under the rail and damaging team B?

Ken Loyd
Team 64:confused:

this year is just as contact friendly as last year, perhaps more.

people should build their bots not to break and be fragile…

unless your driver is hunting bots and crashing them into the wall i dont think you will have a problem.

Yes. We were attacked last year on our wings that grab 3 goals. But since a robot, in my eyes, has something extened outside of it’s casing and it’s far away from the bot, it is even less like incidental contact. It’s more like last years teather, you just try to get around or over it.

If you build a robot to block all or a major part of the field ahem68 cough, then don’t get pissed off if teams show no mercy when trying to bash through. Breaking is part of the process. As FIRST said in the rules, Build to endure. If your strategy is to be a ‘wall’, then other robots will be hitting you every match. I doubt any ref would dq a team for trying to break through.

Making guesses here will do absolutely nothing. It will vary by Regional, and vary by field at the Championship event. Each referee will have their own opinion. Its no use guessing here

we are speculating, thinking before things happen.

that is how brain storming and strategizing works.

but it is true that all refs will be different.

i think it will be much like last year, in which it is a high contact game. very few teams are going to be bastards and deliberately try to damage your bot.

I agree with DJ. Every referee is different. (Except when it comes to a certain couple of unamed refs at IRI in which case they DQd everyone.:smiley: ) Even the referees at a certain event interpet things differently from each other. Therefore, I would ask the referee at the beginning, what he considers incidentcal contact, so you have a pretty good idea of what he or she is going to allow.

*Originally posted by monsieurcoffee *
**If you build a robot to block all or a major part of the field ahem68 cough, then don’t get pissed off if teams show no mercy when trying to bash through. Breaking is part of the process. As FIRST said in the rules, Build to endure. If your strategy is to be a ‘wall’, then other robots will be hitting you every match. I doubt any ref would dq a team for trying to break through. **

68 doesn’t to me look like its going to break anythime soon/

*Originally posted by monsieurcoffee *
**If you build a robot to block all or a major part of the field ahem68 cough, then don’t get pissed off if teams show no mercy when trying to bash through. Breaking is part of the process. As FIRST said in the rules, Build to endure. If your strategy is to be a ‘wall’, then other robots will be hitting you every match. I doubt any ref would dq a team for trying to break through. **

That’s it exactly. Just like last year. Cept, IMO this year will result in A LOT more contact than last year.

and FIRST knew that by putting in the king-of-the-hill it would creat pushing/ramming matches for the top.

Crashing into each other is fair game.

As long as you aren’t trying to damage anyone’s robot, I think pushing them around is fine, whether to get them off the hill or to knock them into their own stacks. If the stack falls, that’s a design problem on the other team’s part, not a rule violation on yours.

Since many teams have bots design to shut down the field or the ramp, it would be ridiculous if you were prohibited from trying to break through. I consider the act of shutting down the field or ramp more aggressive than trying to break through.

*Originally posted by Harrison *
**That’s it exactly. Just like last year. Cept, IMO this year will result in A LOT more contact than last year.

and FIRST knew that by putting in the king-of-the-hill it would creat pushing/ramming matches for the top.

Crashing into each other is fair game. **

That would deoend on whose robot you were talking about from last year. Last year, we (MOE) would run out, grab 3 goals, and anchor ourselves in the scoring zone for the last 1:55 of a match. 99% of the time, the opposing alliance did nothing but pound us for these entire 1:55. This is what teams that try to block off the ramp should expect. And yes, aluminum is hard, but it bends very easily with 2 robots pushing against it.

The way I saw it at the few competitions I saw MOE at was that other teams bent MOE’s arms quite easily. For instance the finals at Duel on the Delaware, North Brunswick Explosion, and the Nat’s Last year. So don’t get too cocky when people have pictures to prove otherwise.

Judging from what I have seen at the UTC Scrimmage and beyond, this competition is absolutely merciless on robots. In something that was just supposed to be a scrimmage, I saw robots leave the building in pieces. This is the way this game works, and it is unavoidable at this point. In this game, there really is no such thing as incidental contact. Incidental tipping…maybe, but contact, no. Build to endure was a key phrase thrown at us all at the beginning of the year, and FIRST meant exactly what they said! This phrase holds true even more for the many wall bots which will be gracing this competition. Taking away the means of passage from one side of the field to another is a strategy, a good strategy, but a very risky one. All I know is that if your robot is sitting at the top of that ramp, blocking my way, it better be prepared to take a rather large pounding, because that wall could mean the difference between a winner and a loser. I haven’t seen a wall bot in action yet, but if UTC gave me any indication of how things are going to be, wall bots may be in grave danger…whether you are the most experienced team on earth, or the newest of rookies.

Good Luck,
Andy Grady

Why would FIRST specifically allow the use of “armor” and “bumpers” on the bot if they don’t allow them to be used in competition?

I am extremly blunt with what I say. After going through VCU and Nats, I have seen what a robot that tries to lock the field ends up doing. Look at MOE and Sparky 3. It was awful. I’m saying this not to be cocky or scare 68, it’s the truth as I have learned it durring 6 days of seeing our bot be spun around and trashed. 68, beware. It will hurt. It will sting to see DQ after DQ. The refs can create rules in an instant that can renter 50% of your bot useless.

Incidental contact is what happened in 2001 and what happens between alliance members. There is never incidental contact between opposing bots, there is only cold hard ramming.

All you need to protect your bot is to cover electronics, wires, and tubing with 1/8 inch lexan. Don’t put anything outside the external ring of your frame. Keep your arms/manipulators away from the other bots.