What is it like being in a powerhouse team?

[Richard_McCann]

@Banderoonies

Being a “powerhouse” means sharing with other teams and helping them succeed. It is the MOST important responsibility.

Absolutely ditto!

[Chi_Meson]

I will admit that we have been struggling and scrapping just to play next to the big dogs for a few years now.

What we lack is the option of pulling all nighters, because we are kicked out of the school at 10 pm. And it’s exhausting enough as it is. And I’m only doing half of what I was doing 4 years ago.

God help us if we ever get our own practice space!

[Banderoonies]

@Chi Meson

I will admit that we have been struggling and scrapping just to play next to the big dogs for a few years now.

What we lack is the option of pulling all nighters, because we are kicked out of the school at 10 pm. And it’s exhausting enough as it is. And I’m only doing half of what I was doing 4 years ago.

God help us if we ever get our own practice space!

I know its a haul from Groton to Southington…but when school is out and you can’t access your bot, you can always come build at our space you know where we live

[saintblaze4639]

@gorrilla

Alot of teams track their hours in an app or something similar.

I would think the hours worked are similar they just accomplish more with their time.

Example: I bet the students on 254 accomplish more in one 5 hour weekday build day than my students because they probably aren’t taking as many snack breaks and playing on their phones.

well… maybe if we had better mentors…

[wesleyac]

@Cory

Exhausting.

This.

@anon91718515

I know from asking questions at champs last year and this year that the amount of time put in by students and mentors is the same or less than that done by teams with less success. So I know it’s not really about time, or commitment, or resources, or money. From out here (those of us really trying to improve our programs and our robots) it feels a little bit like the sound of one hand clapping.

Do strategic analysis and design a robot that will work with your team’s resources. A team that we started in 2015 and are continuing to mentor (5458, Digital Minds) did this really well this year. They built a gear bot that was <30lbs (withholding allowance) with electronics removed. Finished with plenty of time for driver practice.

They were an alliance captain at Sac and LVR, qualified off waitlist, and got to division finals.

@Akash Rastogi

I love seeing and hearing from students on 195 that they were at the practice field/shop till 2 or 3am. It’s the rhetoric I use to keep my own students motivated!

Please don’t do this… Hearing “Other teams are doing this better than us, why aren’t you as good” is honesty really not motivating when students are already putting in a ton of effort. And if students aren’t putting in effort, there’s probably some problem that won’t be solved by being told that everyone else is doing better than you.

@Chi Meson

What we lack is the option of pulling all nighters, because we are kicked out of the school at 10 pm.

Pulling all nighters does not make you successful. The fact that more successful teams have students who pull all nighters is because they are committed to winning (probably more than they should be) and sometimes time is the commodity that you need. Unless you’re already doing everything else you can to make yourself successful, staying later is not likely to help. I wish that I’d learned this way earlier…

@Doug G

I’m definitely in awe of what they do and how they keep themselves organized to avoid the “burnout”.

Burnout among students should probably be talked about way more than it actually is. It’s a pretty big issue IMO but almost no one recognizes that it happens.

[RoboAlum]

Being an alumni of 71 I can tell ya it’s some of the hardest fun. The only that sucks is if you mess up it’s not something that goes away easily. There’s always the bar you have to reach and then try to stay on the same level of the other powerhouses. It’s truly exhausting and usually a year round program.

[Dwight_2]

I wouldn’t consider my team to be a powerhouse team yet because it is our second year and we do have quite a few flaws. however, it is interesting having other teams come up and essentially gauck over your robot and also the people from other teams that youve made friends with basically say “hey pick, us pick us…” I do wonder whats its like to be like our mentor team 195 and have the world gaucking over you. and it is wiered to be the team people wisper about as you walk by or the team that when you go up to other well known powerhoues teams theyre like “oh yeah we know about you.”

Two semi final placements at worlds in two years of being a team with technically 3 blue banners already and plenty of awards for engineering and design are an acomplishment but nothing compared to others.

[Hitchhiker_42]

I’m interested if anyone from 4613 can provide their experience this year with the multinational regional streak. How was it traveling, and especially arranging things? How was your build season organized?

I’m just an interested person

[AdamHeard]

@Jon Stratis

I’ll echo this. Obviously, my team isn’t on that level at champs yet, but within MN we’re one of the most awarded teams over the past 11 years. 29 awards, which comes out to 2.6 per year, or 1.2 per event. That puts us in the top 5 in the state, whichever way you look at it. And putting in the time and effort for all those awards in addition to building a competitive bot (Ignoring last year and this year, everyone has an off-year or two) is exhausting. It’s two completely different skill sets that are often used by the same students and mentors, and the time needed for each of them pulls at the time available for the other.

Any man who must say I am the king is no true king. GoT3x10

It always kills me to see people toot their own horns.

[billbo911]

@Cory

Exhausting.

Look in my signature and you will see, we had a very successful year, but we are not powerhouse by any means.
That said, Cory nailed it!

We have a saying, “I haven’t slept since January!”.

[nlknauss]

@Citrus Dad

I’m sure there’s some team dynamics. Strong mentor roles are important on every such team. They provide the institutional memory about what worked and what didn’t.

Mentors need to read this and everything 1678 has written in this thread so far!

I think team mentors take different approaches to their organizational setup and I’ve always wondered what the powerhouse teams do. I can think of two basic approaches immediately. The first has team mentors with designated roles, projects, or assignments and the other has mentors rotating around a team during meetings to assist with any given project the students may be working on. I’m sure there’s a hybrid version of that model that’s more in line with what most teams do. A lot can get accomplished with a mentor and student leadership team that is in sync with daily and long term goals. Powerhouse teams likely pay attention to all these details in a highly organized way.

[hionwind]

@Rangel

From my perspective, it’s a combination of attitude, organization, and newfound technical expertise. Personally, I think attitude is the biggest factor. It’s easy to tell which teams are hungry for the win and which team’s goals are simply to just do well. Having that attitude will eventually work its way to improving those other characteristics as well. Part of that too is recognizing when the process or robot mechanisms are insufficient and needs improvement or redesign. Something our team continuously tries to improve every year.

I agree that attitude is the greatest factor. If we are talking about building a winning robot, your team needs to have a winning attitude. That means continuously improving throughout the build and competition season. Our team never stops prototyping and is never “happy” with where we are at any stage in the game. Sometimes this means putting in more hours. Sometimes it just means working “smarter” and making good use of the time available.

Having said that, I also agree that good team organization and technical expertise are essential. Finding good mentors who can work side-by-side with the students is the best way to make this happen. Our team has a core of very dedicated mentors who are all pushing to make the team better.

[Knufire]

I don’t really like when people use the _________ powerhouse term. I try to reserve the word powerhouse for those teams that compete at the level required to be an Einstein contender for a number of seasons in a row.

I’d like to think that my alma mater was a powerhouse team. The team I mentored definitely was not, and it took being on both kinds of teams to truly appreciate how lucky I was to get that experience I did as a student. It’s exhausting, as many have mentioned. (Side note: You don’t need to meet 7 days a week. Many powerhouse teams don’t. Frankly, the ones that don’t are definitely being smarter about it then the ones that do.)

The attitude is definitely special. Being a part of a group that is so passionate and intensely focused on achieving a goal, and pursuing that goal as a cohesive unit is an experience that was honestly life changing to me. It’s hard to be content with less once you’ve experienced it. If you want to be a powerhouse team, the prerequisite technical experience and resources are necessary, but there is no more important aspect than having this attitude, as the drive and passion are derived from it.

It was also the most valuable thing I learned through FRC. When I got to “that semester” in college where the engineering curriculum hits you like a train, I was already used to that level of commitment and hard work. My friends that didn’t do as rigorous of an activity in high school weren’t so lucky. In addition, the life lesson you get from watching your borderline crazy amount of hard work translate into success is a great motivator for working equally hard in everything else in your life that you want to be successful.

Honestly, if anyone wants to discuss this further, feel free to PM me or message me on Facebook. As someone who got this experience as a student and has so far failed to implement it as a mentor, it’s something I’ve done a lot of soul searching about.

[anon91718515]

@Citrus Dad

I’m sure there’s some team dynamics. Strong mentor roles are important on every such team. They provide the institutional memory about what worked and what didn’t.

We have given a set of workshops on what we hope is guidance for other teams. The videos are at citruscircuits.org. If you have specific questions, please contact us. And we’re more than willing to sit down at competitions to discuss this as well–come find us in the stands.

Thanks very much for this. It took me a while to find the videos, but now I’ve had some time to absorb the first one. I will be ruminating on these for a while.

[Alex2614]

@Akash Rastogi

I love seeing and hearing from students on 195 that they were at the practice field/shop till 2 or 3am. It’s the rhetoric I use to keep my own students motivated!

@MikLast

That concerns me more than anything, especially if there’s school the next day.

We regularly meet until 2 or 3am, but only on Saturdays or non-school days. Because we only meet on Weekends, Wednesdays, and most non-school days (snow days, holidays, etc) during build season, we need all the time we can get. Sometimes that means meeting until 3am. School nights is a strict 8pm cutoff.

However, none of our students are required to be there until closing. They’re encouraged to get other responsibilities taken care of first (homework, band, sports, etc).

[carlgr32]

@oliverw

I’d be curious to see the average hours from students on powerhouse teams vs non-powerhouse teams.

At team 85 i was at FIRST around 30-40 hrs/week but i wasnt at every meeting

[MeGuttieri]

Hm, I think you are asking the wrong question. The best things about being on an FRC team are the people you meet, the lessons you learn, and the passion you take away afterwards. If you do/accomplish those things, I’d say you’re getting a lot, if not just as much, as a team you would define as a “powerhouse”. One thing that really centers me is the enthusiasm for what we’re all trying to accomplish. If you have passion for your team, the things you want to achieve will come with time and the right attitude.

[cbale2000]

@gorrilla

Example: I bet the students on 254 accomplish more in one 5 hour weekday build day…

@carlgr32

At team 85 i was at FIRST around 30-40 hrs/week but i wasn’t at every meeting

Oh… Well then, it looks like we’ve got some work to do…

[Sparky_Jell-0]

@Banderoonies

but the bonds of family that are formed through the hard work and struggle are a treasure.

We’re aren’t exactly a powerhouse, but this is so true. Meeting 6 days a week, seeing the same 20+ faces for months on end, struggling towards the same goal, it’s truly an enriching experience

[Basel_A]

I have to say, “exhaustion” is a really dissatisfying answer for a thread like this. If you were reading the intent of the thread the way I did (what makes top teams different), it even comes off as if you’re calling other teams lazy? I’m sure great teams work more hours, on average. But lots of decent teams work and work and get nowhere. My team in high school, we worked a ton, and we were pretty good. I could give you 18 different reasons why we (or my more recent team, for that matter) were worse than better performing teams, but I’d bet there’s one or two that really make a big difference (and it’s probably not hours). Culture? A big machine shop? One mentor who literally dedicates their life to keeping the team organized?

I’d love to see more thoughtful posts from the great teams about what’s different on their teams. Steve’s post was particularly good, I thought. I’m also interested to hear how these teams came to be the way they are.