What is the ideal alliance?

What do you think is the ideal or perfect alliance? Is the key to winning three scorers? Two scorers and one defender? Two scorers and one empy cell runner? One of each? I know people will want to throw out team numbers, but lets not make this a discussion on which teams are better, but a strategic discussion of the ideal type of alliance.

I think this will be a very important and difficult decision for alliance captains in Atlanta. Unlike at most regionals, where there aren’t 24 ‘good’ scorers, in Atlanta, a team should have its choice on which type of robot it wants.

I think an alliance will need three robots with good scoring abilities. Atleast two fo these robots will have empty cell capibilites and one will be very good at playing defense. I think the more flexibility you have the better. Of course, all three will have good drivers and human players.

The ideal alliance would of course be the three top scoring robots, who all play good defense, can run empty cells, can handle supercells effectively, have good drivers, and flawless human players. :cool:

You missed one spec. :wink: They all need to coordinate perfectly too. It is a lot easier to catch another robot and score on them if someone else on your alliance jumps out in front of the target bot and stops them for you. Same applies for escaping a pin, and many other similar moves.

Ah, missed one! But speaking more seriously I think coordination(and driving comes in close second) is the most important thing. Three teams with really good drivers, and good coordination could win just by pinning other teams in the corners, even if they never score with their bots. It would be tough, but not out of the question.

I think the ideal alliance would be a
1: super scorer that can get big numbers quick (40+ points a match)
1: decent bot that runs empty cells and scores moderately well (15-20 points)
1:defensive robot that either defends your super scorer from pins or pins the other teams super scorer. (10 or less points)

The reason i don’t say 3 super scorers is because of what i saw at Midwest. Yes there where other factors to the loss by 71 and 1114 in the quarters but the one thing that i thought that was important was they got in each others way. They where so ball hungry that they ended up fighting each other for balls to score with. Also one super scorer should be enough, 1114 had a qualification match where it was the only bot on its allaince. They ended up winning 70 something to 60 something against 3 opposing bots. That is plenty of scoring to win a match.

a team with 1 super scorer would be able to allow it to do its job (scoring big) without fighting for balls with its team mates while the other “scoring” bot runs empty cells and compliments the super scorer with additional points.

I think you two have hit on this perfectly. Coordination and strategy are the most important parts of this game. I know you said not to make it specific, but at the Florida regional my alliance (179 233 and 1649) was statistically the weaker alliance, and there is really no way we should have beaten 79, 744 and 1251. However we coordinated better and had better strategy and were able to pull the victory out. So really what is he best alliance? An alliance that can work well together. I think 2 power dumpers and a defender shooter is the perfect alliance in terms of types on robots.

Ideal is three bots that can score. Also one has to be great at playing D while scoring, other can score and run empty cells, the other should just pwn and play great D.

Best alliance is one with 3 smart, accurate human players.

And 3 robots that fit the requirements in the posts above, of course :wink:

I’d say two robots who can score well, doesn’t matter shooter or power dumper, althought one of each would be preferred by me. and another who can defend or run empty cells depending on what needs to happen.

An alliance with three teams who know all the rules, have great strategy, and are willing to work as a team to pull it off. Shooter vs. dumper vs. shumper doesn’t end up mattering as long as their robots are robust and score well. The other criteria is what makes their alliance stay on top.

that is what we actually had except i was difficult for the tech tigers (or anyone else) to pin you guys. the reason we blew you away in the second match was because they kept you out of commision. they tried extremely well in the third match, but your swerve drive and drivers were able to pull away with just enough time to dump before they got on you again. I didn’t pay much attentio to Pink’s defence but it must’ve have been really good. (Looking back i should have had the Tigers deliver the empty cell like they normally did - o well i’m still happy with were we placed).

(sorry for bringing up names, it just seemed like a good example)

Personally I think the best alliance of any type is a robot that accomplishes a task, such as scoring, delivering empty cells, defence, other, or a combination, really fast and efficiently. what that alliance is I think is 2 scorers and a defensive robot with empty cell capability. All robots should maximize autonomous ability as well (something we need to improve on).

2 robots who [strike]can[/strike] almost always score a lot, minimum. 1 that can score if it needs to/can score a lot, depending on what is available for the second pick. 3 good payload specialists that don’t get penalties, 1 of whom is good while sitting on his/her rear. 3 teams that work well together and [strike]coordinate[/strike] choreograph really, really well. Yes, I said choreograph. This game is like a dance for position to score.

I saw an alliance consisting of a one “super scorer” and two, essentially offensive linebackers to play some serious defense work pretty well. The serpentine alliance selection pretty much limits an alliance to two effective scorers, even then, the scoring robots can be divided and conquered by an aggressive defense.

To me an ideal alliance consists of a serious defensive robot, another defensive robot capable of running super cells, and one offensive flagship robot to rack up the big points. The defensive robots play a much more effective counter-defense, keeping the flagship out of game breaking pins, and running empties for those oh so essential super cells.

My dream alliance is more about the people behind the glass than the metal on the field. With that said I would love a chance to coach w/ JVN.

25 359 254
368 359 254
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Coaching aspect
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25 359 254
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368 359 2090

Coaching aspect
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A lot of teams probably dont know that the first Hawaii teams (359 and 368) were started/inspired by 254 who brought their rookie robot to Hawaii after the 1999 season was over, made possible by Mark Leon.
We also have a special connection to team 25. Even though they are 5000+ miles away, its like they are next door.
I’ve heard a lot about Paul on the field, though never actually was with him during the 2003 CMP playoffs. They say he is as intense as it gets. So am I.

The one that gets a big blue banner on Einstein. :wink:

Surprise! There is no ideal alliance. As soon as you think you have a winning strategy, someone WILL figure out how to beat it. Robots are not the only influencing factor in this game.

Also, this game will be totally different once there is more depth to the field than at the typical regional. Expect major upsets come elims in Atl.

i would say 2 shooters and a dumper