So, when looking at the Cheval from the Neutral Zone, the panels are positioned as “Down - Up - Down - Up”. The panel on the right is positioned away from you.
Here, the panels are “Up - Down - Up - Down” when viewed from the Neutral Zone. The right panel is positioned towards you.
I feel that the Game Manual might be in the wrong in this case. Simply turning the Cheval around wouldn’t solve the problem, it’s the panels themselves that would need to be switched. What are others’ thoughts on this?
According to FE-00039 in the 2016 Field Assembly document and 2016 Game Manual Figure 2-1, the Cheval de Frise is positioned so the panels are oriented “Down-Up-Down-Up” when viewed left-right. However, on the field shown in the FIRST STRONGHOLD Game Reveal and Field Tour videos posted on the FRCTeamsGlobal YouTube Channel the panels are oriented “Up-Down-Up-Down.” Can you confirm that the orientation shown in the Field Assembly document and Game Manual is correct?
I will post an update in this thread once the question has been answered.
I think the Q&A would be the best way to go here, but without the insight of the Q&A, I would think the manual takes precedence, however the rock wall dimensions have proved that wrong.
Every year the animation has a robot which violates the “intentional contact inside the frame perimeter” rule. This year that rule is [G24]. This year one of the robots in the animation had a battering ram that had only one obvious function: “communicate” with other teams, regardless of [G24].
I do believe the field drawings themselves take precedence over the manual, which takes precedence over the animation/field tour.
Yes but…By that logic, the Rock Wall should have never changed. All dimensions were consistent between the team drawings, official drawings and the manual. The only way the discrepancy was found was through measurements taken on the built field in Manchester at kickoff.
In this case, I wouldn’t necessarily treat the animation as having any bearing, but the video of the real field is again discrepant with the manual and drawings.
I don’t expect this issue to be quite as hard to resolve (after all it’s just the order of the planks), but if the real field differs from the documentation, we’d want to know.
Fwiw, the defenses are all keyed so they can’t be installed “backward”.
I am kind of curious how many robot designs actually care about the order, vs just wanting to practice on the right thing. Seems like a pretty specific, asymmetrical design is required, but I’ve seen stranger things…
If there is one observation to make about the game design from the outside this year, it’s that the field’s complexity contributed to drawings not being locked in until beyond the last minute. It’s possible the field they set up for the videos didn’t have the casters and the “keying” function built in yet.
Just rotating this won’t fix it, it needs to be disassembled and corrected. Another example of field inconsistencies I haven’t seen anyone else bring up is the Sally port. The metal support bar on the back is completely different between a photo posted in the Sally Port thread of a kickoff official field and the one in the field tour video.
Sorry, I guess I wasn’t clear. What I meant was that rotating the CDF won’t make them face a different way. Then gave another example proving your point further.
The two pictures you are referring to in the manual are pictures of the elements themselves, they do not bear any positioning elements. Admittedly, it is misleading, but there is nothing around the two figures that say “this is how the defense will be seen from your drive station to the enemy’s barter”
Figure 2-1 clearly shows the cheval de frise orientation with respect to the rest of the field.
I think there’s some miscommunication and confusion going on about the cheval de frise.
There’s no way to take the cheval de frise that’s shown in 2-5 and 2-7 and put it in a field and have it look like the drawing in 2-1. Figures 2-5 and 2-7 show up-down-up-down for both sides, and 2-1 shows the opposite.
If the cheval de frise goes up-down-up-down on one side, it goes up-down-up-down on the other side too. There’s no way to put it in backward, and rotating it 180 degrees will not change the orientation. We don’t need to see the orientation of the defense with respect to the field to know that there is an inconsistency.
As Mike posted, the Q&A confirmed that the Game Manual and official field drawings are correct:
Q. According to FE-00039 in the 2016 Field Assembly document and 2016 Game Manual Figure 2-1, the Cheval de Frise is positioned so the panels are oriented “Down-Up-Down-Up” when viewed left-right. However, on the field shown in the FIRST STRONGHOLD Game Reveal and Field Tour videos posted on the FRCTeamsGlobal YouTube Channel the panels are oriented “Up-Down-Up-Down.” Can you confirm that the orientation shown in the Field Assembly document and Game Manual is correct?
A. Confirmed. The Field Drawing and Game Manual display the correct orientation.
Yep. Unless you’re looking at a mirror, the cheval de frise is always up/down/up/down or down/up/down up, regardless of how you flip it. There has been a lot of inconsistency between officially posted documents. Images that I’ve found:
