WOW’s problem, as Jimmy pointed out, is primarily financial at this point. The three regionals, Buckeye, Greater Pittsburgh and Miami Valley (formerly Queen City) have been less than financially stable. Since we put on three regionals, the WOW (formerly Ohio) Championship and a couple of off season events (CORI, MVRC, Steel City Showdown) there is a fairly solid volunteer base. There are venues available. We have an operating structure in place under the PAST Foundation. So WOW is basically in need of one or more core sponsors to make the district model financially viable.
They should just continue to exist in a much more expensive model for the Regional committees, because that makes the most sense.
I think a Carolina district would have some geographic problems, however it should be feasible considering PNW covers both washington and oregon (which should have a landmass greater than that of the carolinas)
Or they can just move to another system where the cost is thrown onto the teams. Their choice?
That depends on what team you’re looking at. Costs for my team went up $0 because we were already travelling for all of our events.
Not all of us had Regionals in our backyard Matt 
On one level, I don’t really mind this. If there’s one region that districts aren’t a great fit for right now, it’s NYC. Venue availability, team travel considerations, and international teams are all reasons NYC should probably hang onto regionals for at least a few more years, especially as international teams get pushed out of other events.
However!
If there’s one region districts are perfect for, it’s Upstate NY! I know there’s financial and volunteer challenges, but those can be overcome. The team count and distribution upstate is ripe for the district model. And if this news is true, and HQ is still opposed to splitting up states (which hasn’t happened since MAR), this is bad news for those of us upstate who are hopeful for a transition soon.
At some point, FIRST is going to have to move the rest of the league to districts. Not necessarily any time soon, but the two-systems model is less and less sustainable the more areas transition to districts.
FIRST will never be able to make an all-district system with the current boundaries, however. Teams from remote regions may have one, or zero, local events. Teams on the borders between districts have been a perennial problem that FIRST has thus far solved by sticking their fingers in their ears and going “lalala everyone is fine with sticking to these boundaries lalala”.
Ultimately, I think the long term plan should go something like this:
- Every existing event that isn’t a DCMP is now a Qualifying Event. Teams who attend these events, regardless of where they are from, accrue District Points. Points are points are points; it doesn’t matter where you get them, it just matters that you get them. Perhaps restrict the first event to within X miles of your DCMP, just to be fair?
(Any criticism that such a system allows teams to “shop” for “weak districts” is somewhat unfounded; first, the regional system already allowed this, and second the average powerhouse team won’t make themselves book travel three or four times in a season just to qualify slightly easier)
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Each team is assigned a DCMP. The top X teams assigned to that DCMP in order of district points get to go. Same qualifying rules as always. Some process to “switch” your home DCMP due to hardship exists as a case by case exception basis.
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In extreme cases, where a team truly cannot attend a second event (e.g. they are based in a continent with just one event), the first event points are doubled for the purposes of DCMP qualification. In truly isolated cases where the nearest DCMP involves very long distance travel (or international travel), that team can qualify for Champs directly with a certain number of district points.
Ultimately while this ends up being a LOT of work to implement, and certainly something several seasons away from even being possible, I think this is the direction we all have to go in order to have a vaguely sustainable FRC model.
The model district that would be ideal for upstate New York is what Indiana does. Smaller amount of events (3 or 4) with 50 to 70 teams. We could trade where the championship is held as well. I just don’t think FIRST will let Upstate New York do it.
Agreed. The question is, at what point does it become “time to apply the pressure”?
Is it after CA goes district? MN? WOW? NY? Somebody else?
Personally I’d say it lies somewhere between the 50% and 67% markers. If 67% of teams are in districts, FIRST should be putting the pressure on to figure out how to finish the job, but that last 33% will be the hardest (the teams in areas that can’t sustain districts on their own at this point). At some point, they’ll have to go to that model, and the one above is pretty much the way I’d look to do it. (Just for grins, use the current district borders for locating DCMPs.)
If only there was a way to start this process? Like let teams compete in neighboring districts for points…
lucky you, but that’s not the only costs that need to be considered.
I feel like this is probably true, but I’m having trouble figuring out exactly why it would be true.
Taking Minnesota as an example, we could just continue to run our Regionals as other areas transition to Districts. We have enough space in our events to meet the demand of the teams in our area, and I would say there’s more room for growth in terms of event space than there is for team growth.
Obviously the issue that we would eventually run into is that all the regions around Minnesota would go to Districts, thus cutting off possible Regional destinations for Minnesota teams. I’m not sure this is such a critical issue at least in the case of Minnesota. I’m imagining this would create a much larger problem in the case of California and for international teams, but if it doesn’t create a problem for a particular Region (like Minnesota), then why would FIRST put pressure on that region to transition to Districts?
What other factors am I missing? What other problems for Regional areas are created as more regions transition to Districts?
What other new costs is 1086 experiencing in the district system besides travelling more?
Not 1086, but teams that are accustomed to paying only the initial registration costs, are responsible for paying for the District Championship as well.
For traditional Regional 2-event teams moving to a District system, the team registration cost is a wash.
But for old 1-event teams coupled with the FRC-wide expectation that if they draw enough points, they will attend the District Chanpionship, then the registration costs have almost doubled and the time commitment has tripled.
If you can’t afford to go to the DCMP, don’t go. I have the same stance with the WCMPs, if going will be too hard on your team financially, don’t go.
It’s part of the expected cost of participation in FRC.
It really isn’t as simple as “just don’t go”.
The real way to handle it is the way PNW has approached the problem.
P.S.
Overall, by the numbers team registration expenses do go up when they go to districts, but overall not a whole lot.
But it really is that simple. I understand it would be hard to tell your students “I’m sorry but the team can’t afford to go” but it’s that simple. I personally know a team that qualified from CHS last year to go to the WCMP and opted out because they decided they would not be competitive enough for what it was going to cost them.
I know those teams exist, and a cursory look at the team page for 1086 would tell you that they have not been one since 2009. They also opted out of their local regional in 2013, traveling for all 3 events that season.
I’m not saying this to call Matt Wilson out on anything; I like to think we are good colleagues and friends. I just know we on 422 are not seeing additional costs outside of travel and I don’t know why they are.
It’s expensive being a World Champion!
On one level, I don’t really mind this. If there’s one region that districts aren’t a great fit for right now, it’s NYC. Venue availability, team travel considerations, and international teams are all reasons NYC should probably hang onto regionals for at least a few more years, especially as international teams get pushed out of other events.
However!
If there’s one region districts are perfect for, it’s Upstate NY! I know there’s financial and volunteer challenges, but those can be overcome. The team count and distribution upstate is ripe for the district model. And if this news is true, and HQ is still opposed to splitting up states (which hasn’t happened since MAR), this is bad news for those of us upstate who are hopeful for a transition soon.[/quote]
Honestly, I think this is the right take on the situation. NYC is nowhere near ready for the district model and it’s not a great fit to begin with for reasons that have already been :deadhorse:'d.
My take for the near (3-5 year) future for NY:
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NYC + LI continue adding more small regionals. The venue for HVR is set up so that the back-to-back event thing is possible there, so I’d expect that to be the next growth step once it’s necessary. Continue growing the key volunteer base to position well for the longer future. This also continues to give international teams a place to play without sacrificing slots for local teams.
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Upstate either becomes its own Indiana-esque district or is allowed to join NE/WOW (if that gets off the ground). This would require HQ to relax their rumored policy on splitting states. If that’s a non-starter, then we’ll see a lot more of the status quo.