where in the manual are the wheel rules and restrictions at?
What are they?
Rule R08 of the Robot Section of the Manual.
<R08> ROBOT wheels, tracks, and other parts intended to provide traction on the FIELD may be purchased or fabricated (“traction devices” include all parts of the ROBOT that are designed to transmit any propulsive and/or braking forces between the ROBOT and the FIELD). In no case will traction devices that damage the carpet or other playing surfaces be permitted. Traction devices shall not have surface features such as metal, sandpaper, hard plastic studs, cleats, or other attachments. Anchors (i.e. devices that are deployed/used to keep one’s ROBOT in one place and prevent if from being moved by another ROBOT) shall not use metal in contact with the carpet to “stay put.” Gaining traction by using adhesives or Velcro-like fastener material is not allowed.
Please read more thoroughly next time.
Check section 8 of the manual. There are no* restrictions on the wheels this year.
*Meaning that as long as your wheels are not made of dangerous materials and no metal touches the carpet you are probably ok. (R02, 05, 08 etc) But PLEASE double check with the rules.
Hey its not easy to read through 32 pages of rules its not like ther is a wheel section.
Most people on here find it quite easy to read through all the rules, and generally do better because of it. How are you supposed to conceptualize without a complete grasp of what your trying to do?
… if only some technology existed to allow you to search for important words or phrases within a document, what a wonderful world it would be.
It’s very easy to miss something, that why this forum is great.
I find that there are 6 references to the word “wheel”, of which 5 happen in the definitions (8.2) and one just so happens to be the rule governing traction devices (<R08>). All happen to be in Section 8. Time to find these: 30 seconds. Time to make a post here with findings: about 2 minutes. 
Chief Delphi is not your personal PDF search box. So be willing to put up with some (lots) of ragging if your question can be answered with a 15 second keyword search in a PDF.
Go easy on him. He is from a relatively new team. Last season there were very tight restrictions on wheels, where as most of us know that is usually not the case.
The Man, not knowing there are usually no wheel restrictions, thought he would post to make sure he isn’t overlooking something. Thus this is a reasonable question.
That being said, yes, everyone should read the rules before posting, but not everyone has to be an enforcer. Give people the benefit of the doubt.
Well sorry, from the way you guys are sounding no one should ever ask a question on chief delphi. I dont think dean would like all this hounding on my question.
It’s not so much the question as the form it took. From all appearances, the original question was posted without having done any research or read any of the rules. The same question could be asked as follows and be treated respectfully by everyone here:
I’ve looked through section 8 and can’t find any restrictions on the wheels (like there were last year with <R06> and the rover wheels). What rule(s) apply restrictions to the wheels we can use this year?
It’s a general rule of internet message boards that questions posed without having done “sufficient” previous research (searching the boards or related documents) get pounded on. People don’t like to be answering the same question to every new poster that joins the site over and over again - it’s monotonous and boring. Responses like you got here are, IMO, pretty light when compared to responses you would get for similar types of “obvious” questions on most other boards.
To which the easy response is, “I don’t think Dean would like you not reading the manual thoroughly”.
The hard response is, you’re right. There are some harsh responses. I don’t think they were to your initial question, though. All you got from the first set of responses were rule references and a “look more carefully”–in effect, your answer with a gentle reminder about the manual having the information.
It was to your comment about it not being easy/not having a wheel section, and to a comment about it being easy to overlook something being a reason CD is great, that the harsher responses came. When you respond in sort of a dismissive tone, especially to something important like reading the manual, then you can expect some people to get rather annoyed. When they do, they tend to get a bit harder on others.
It wasn’t your question that we were annoyed at. It was the perceived attitude of the followup post that we were annoyed at. There’s a difference.
Well ya know what ill be the biger man hear, this has nothing to do with first and dose not represent what first stands for, and you did not have to answer my question if you didnt want to so no more posting on this thread.
And the answer is…
<R08> ROBOT wheels, tracks, and other parts intended to provide traction on the FIELD may be purchased or fabricated (“traction devices” include all parts of the ROBOT that are designed to transmit any propulsive and/or braking forces between the ROBOT and the FIELD). In no case will traction devices that damage the carpet or other playing surfaces be permitted. Traction devices shall not have surface features such as metal, sandpaper, hard plastic studs, cleats, or other attachments. Anchors (i.e. devices that are deployed/used to keep one’s ROBOT in one place and prevent if from being moved by another ROBOT) shall not use metal in contact with the carpet to “stay put.” Gaining traction by using adhesives or Velcro-like fastener material is not allowed.
In addition to this rule, Team Update #3 has added…
J. For the purposes of the FIRST competition, air-filled (pneumatic) wheels are not considered pneumatic devices, and are not subject to the pneumatic rules (although they must still satisfy all other appropriate rules).
That last part in parentheses includes R08 and all rules coming under safety, bumper design, robot perimeter, etc.
here . I really liked this thread and I think it can apply here??? maybe???
Hi. I’m a totally confused rural rookie. My question similar to this one. I actually did read section 8 several times and everything else my glossed over eyelids could handle on the subject. Its just that one rule says EXACT KOP replacements are required. And other rules infer that its ok to use other COTS parts on the robot.
“If we use a different wheel from the KOP that doesn’t fit inside the wheel housing? Can we use a different wheel housing? Or could I maybe modify the KOP housings to fit over the wheels because I’d like a different sized tire?”
I’ve seriously looked everywhere… and from what I gather, I can use a different wheel housing as long as its basically safe.
Damiles,
KOP wheels are not required. You may use them but you may use others as well. The rule in Section 8 <R08> relates to things that cannot contact the carpet which leaves a whole world of wheels at your disposal. Can you remember which rule you read that made you believe KOP wheels were the only thing you could use? Is it possible you were reading the 2009 Robot rules? Last year you had to use the wheels that came in the KOP or additional wheels of the same type.
correct, there really are no restrictions on wheels, except that they can’t damage stuff
Thank you Al and Joek.
I did have a 2009 manual in the mix at one time. So maybe that was the culprit who got me nervous in the first place.
I appreciate the quick response and good luck to all in the regionals!
My most often used quote about any new idea so far:
“I know there’s gotta be a rule about that somewhere…but where???”
…and usually we find the answer a few days too late :yikes: